71_FutureNowShow_AWE_DrDan.txt

 This is the log tape, Captain's log, right?
 Yeah.
 We're talking about how do we explain something like general world models to a radio audience?
 That's right.
 And we have this wonderful video that's really fun to watch.
 Great video, yeah.
 And it's in the links for today, June 25th.
 Introducing general world models.
 And this is a runway informational video.
 Is that them?
 Yeah.
 General world model, that's one of the things I'd like to figure out how we can introduce
 that to the audience.
 So I'm going to read a little bit what it says.
 A world model is an AI system that builds an internal representation of an environment
 and uses it to simulate future events within that environment.
 Research in world models has so far been focused on very limited and controlled settings,
 either in toy simulated worlds like video games or narrow contexts such as developing
 world models for driving.
 The aim of general world models would be to represent and simulate a wide range of situations
 and interactions like those encountered in the real world.
 Let's build the holiday.
 Yeah.
 Now, just visually what I saw as someone who does video animation and works with multiple
 objects and maps and frame animation.
 What I saw was very, very good use of iconography and mapping and animation and video.
 And all of these different kinds of media were woven together with the narrative so
 that you had a wonderful illustrated picture of what was being said.
 And I was thinking how the brain organizes around our senses and how we have our thoughts
 illustrated by the pictures and the sounds and the senses that go with a particular experience
 and how our invisible organization inside of our thought process is some kind of map.
 And when you see it in a beautiful presentation like this, you actually learn something more
 about how your thoughts work with very disorganized, unrelated things.
 And it puts them into patterns.
 You're just thinking that as I was reading that?
 Yeah.
 Oh, cool.
 Okay.
 So let's try the next paragraph and see what you think.
 Think of video generative systems such as Gen 2, early and limited forms of general world
 models in order for Gen 2 to that's the current model by the way of Gen 2.
 I was wondering about that.
 For Gen 3.
 You have a Fort Gen 3 is being introduced here.
 And the idea was that you can generate realistic short videos and you came to understand physics
 and motion in the creation of short videos with Gen 2.
 But it was very limited and it struggled with complicated camera shots or moving objects
 and other stuff.
 So they had to improve that, had to get so that you have more realistic camera motions,
 object motions, et cetera.
 What is the thing that's hard?
 So to build the general world models, there are several open research challenges that
 we're working on.
 For one, those models will need to generate consistent maps of the environment.
 Save mapping, yes.
 And the ability to navigate and interact in those environments.
 Navigate, that's motion, interact, communications.
 Right.
 Well, if you think about our navigator apps, we have a drawing of where all the buildings
 are and we have lines between them that show where all the roads are.
 And if you look at ways, we have little dots that show where the drivers are and the moving
 parts and the software knows the relationship of all those things so that every second our
 screen updates with some new information.
 Yeah.
 All the time.
 In terms of the space news, the perseverance finds popcorn on Mars.
 Popcorn?
 Yeah.
 I don't believe it.
 After months of driving, perseverance has finally arrived at Bright Angel, discovering
 oddly textured rock.
 Oh, here I thought maybe they had some kind of movie watcher audience on Mars that dropped
 a few popcorn.
 Yeah, you have a vivid imagination.
 Popcorn.
 Yeah.
 Well, exciting.
 Textured rock.
 Textured.
 Mm.
 Yeah.
 Unlike anything that they've seen before.
 It's a new type of pattern on the rocks.
 What does this mean?
 Where does this rock come from?
 Why is it different?
 Mm.
 Got to wonder.
 That's excitement on Mars.
 Yeah.
 Having completed a survey of the intriguing and diverse boulders at Mount Washburn, the
 rover headed north, parking just in front of an exposure of layered, light-toned rock.
 Lared, light-toned rock.
 You know, headlines breaking news about Mars rocks.
 It's kind of funny.
 I've been in the chat.
 Do you think, "Daughter Future," that like the planet is not exactly holding its breath
 for this information?
 Well, that's why we're different.
 We have a small audience right here.
 That's right.
 I guess there is a small audience of people that are holding their breath for news about
 the color of Martian popcorn rock.
 Textured rock.
 Popcorn.
 Art Deco.
 Yes.
 There's outcrop on Soul 11.75.
 And a lot of time must take a pre-break.
 Okay, I'll stop recording.
 Sometimes our prep is really funny.
 Yeah, it is.
 Let's not miss out.
 I'm not afraid to do things I am on the air.
 All right.
 Are you thinking it's time to look at the Julian Assange news?
 Now, Bobby, Bobby just checked in from the road with Katya on vacation.
 And Bobby's iPad, M1 is connecting.
 Okey-dokey.
 Are you guys car camping?
 We're car camping, yes.
 We are.
 Nice.
 We have some of our favorite folks in live in the house and lots of cool stuff to look
 into about reality as it unfolds live.
 We're in Santa Cruz at the beach while Santa Cruz voice listeners are turning up their volume,
 listening to the news.
 When 105 I see.
 Okay.
 We got 10 seconds.
 10 seconds.
 I'll give you the final count.
 Five, four, three.
 Say kids.
 What time is that?
 The future is coming on.
 It's coming on.
 Okay.
 We are live on the air.
 Or should we say in the air is.
 It's like 1080 likes to say.
 Right.
 We're definitely flying.
 Yeah.
 We're all in different places today.
 We're in Wonka Land.
 There's bits coming together through cords and wires and mysterious airwaves.
 Yeah.
 And we have lost, of course, Al and the sun.
 That's right.
 You got us.
 Doc and Mrs. Future here.
 And we have Bobby sitting in a car.
 Bobby.
 Say hi, buddy.
 Did a cartoon next to him.
 Hey.
 On vacation somewhere.
 Hey.
 Sounding good, Betty.
 We are camping in the Trinity Alps and we're just seven miles from Canyon Creek.
 Canyon Creek.
 We're in a town called Junction City.
 It used to be an old gold lining town here.
 Lots of gold lining in the 1800s, late 1800s.
 Wow.
 So it reminds me of Nevada City.
 It looks just like Nevada City.
 We were going.
 Yeah.
 We were going.
 Is it like a train junction?
 What kind of junction are we talking about here?
 I think it's these highways.
 Well, there were roads and one would go into these mines in this canyon and then come
 out and it would connect to this juncture.
 They're still in California, right?
 Junction City is in California.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 I mean, we've revealed big flats.
 We've revealed.
 Yeah.
 That's just north of Reading.
 We're very close to Shasta.
 Uh huh.
 Whatever possessed you to go to Junction City.
 We're just that.
 Katia wanted.
 She'd been planning this for a year.
 You tell them why did we come here?
 Oh, well, it's beautiful.
 It's beautiful and it's lesser visited than national partners.
 It's a national, it's forest area in wilderness area.
 So it's not really a city.
 No, no.
 There's a forest station office and a fire station here and a little market, a tiny
 market.
 Now we just came down.
 We just broke.
 We just broke.
 It's having an alarm.
 Oh, yeah.
 I just had to raise the window.
 We got these fire-fying trucks here.
 I guess they did a little training session this afternoon.
 I was here last night and there was nobody here and got great cellular reception.
 Now they did a training session, but they're all leaving now and they let me park in the
 parking lot.
 All right.
 Good.
 I'm going to do a show for you.
 That's great.
 Wow.
 Brilliant.
 We drove down 25 minutes from the campground to get here.
 Oh, wow.
 All right.
 Well, thank you.
 You guys are so dedicated.
 Thank you so much.
 I really appreciate you going live with us from the wilderness.
 Don't you love it the way that everything is connected?
 You can be out in a beautiful, natural setting and you can just take a little podcast break
 and come and connect with your buddies.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Aw.
 I also feel really good to know that training is going on.
 Firefighters in our National Forests are really making great progress and around the Bay Area
 here we've had a few burns.
 Prescription burns.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 Prescribed burns that the air quality goes down for a few days, but you feel much safer
 because a lot of the brush and debris, we get rid of it in a smart way and it's training
 the people.
 And all the practice that everyone's doing.
 Yeah, it's incredible.
 Yeah.
 We just passed fire.
 I don't know what kind of center.
 It was a community center and there was this whole tribute set up for there was just an outpouring
 of community love and support for all the firefighters and all the work they do.
 I mean, obviously they are.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 So critical here.
 That's good to know because for us, it's kind of understandable because we're so close
 to civilization, just 45 minutes from the valley, Silicon Valley.
 But up there, you're a long way from anywhere.
 Yeah.
 And yet they still have some pretty good fire coverage.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 You'll see fire stations.
 They look like a big garage every so often down the roads.
 And what used to be an old mining town.
 Now they just have a fire station there.
 That's left.
 The only building that survived.
 My understanding is that there's cameras everywhere too.
 They have a lot of viewpoints.
 Like webcams, right?
 Yeah.
 Things you can check from where you are and see what the live scene looks like.
 PG&E has them on their towers.
 So really?
 Yeah.
 It's quite a network.
 We have access to quite a bit of it.
 In the old days, they used to have those fire watch out towers on top of these mountains.
 But they don't have those anymore.
 So they just have these webcams, right?
 Yeah.
 So high res, you're able to see smoke.
 I wouldn't be surprised if they have smoke detection algorithms applied now.
 You know, it's so funny when you think about how fearful people are about technology ruining
 our lives and making us less nature loving humans.
 And you think about the fact that it used to be that we would have to employ some lonely
 ranger to stay out there for months at a time to kind of gee the air in.
 Jack Kerouac, right?
 Or light keepers even.
 Yes, all these professions are changing.
 And now we just put a camera up and a solar powered battery and the signal travels miraculously,
 you know, a thousand miles.
 Yeah, I have one human and 50 screens.
 I think of it as our planetary brain is waking up.
 It's getting more sensors.
 We're helping our unity consciousness to see everything that can be seen in a new way so
 that we can do a better job of taking care of it.
 Like the cameras, for example, we can see from our deck, we can see that where the dead
 trees are, which ones are living, which ones are healthy.
 Yes.
 And from the air, you get a sense, okay, well, one in 10 is not good.
 So when it's one and eight, we need to start thinking about doing a prescribed burn, stuff
 like that.
 Mm hmm.
 And I think that's great.
 It can go to the point where maybe it'll be useful for many other things too.
 Maybe we can tell a lot of other information from these cameras.
 But like we have these air quality detection devices now everywhere.
 That seems like it's also moving in this direction of knowing what the quality of the
 air is as well as whatever we can see visually.
 How is the quality up there now?
 There's supposed to be a fire somewhere.
 And did you smell smoke, right?
 Well, that was coming up.
 That was well south of Redding.
 It was called the sites fire, but we, you know, we just felt just a little bit.
 It's pretty crystal clear up here.
 Okay.
 It's a little over overcast now, fortunately.
 So it's not too hot yesterday was real.
 There was no overcast.
 It was like pretty hot, like a hundred degrees.
 A hundred degrees.
 No, I think it was like 90.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 It got pretty hot.
 And Boulder Creek here too was like a hundred.
 Fortunately, we were down at the beach that time.
 But yeah, we heard people.
 We had Bruce and Catherine come and tell us of their woes and how nice it was to be down
 here in the fog with us.
 We actually had a gorgeous day all day until about three in the afternoon.
 And then it started slipping away.
 That blue sky got filled with fog and the temperature dropped and it went from perfect
 to put your sweater on.
 But you can't complain.
 No.
 When I think of my friends sweltering in New Jersey or Northern California.
 Yeah.
 The forest.
 Yeah.
 Hang in there people.
 We got firefighters coming.
 Women firefighters, I guess.
 They did a training today.
 You're right there in the middle.
 It looks like, oh no.
 Coming to what your car.
 Yes.
 Okay.
 I think we'll do some of the stories.
 All right.
 Let's take a look on the web at the doctor.
 What do you mean you'll wait?
 I see your speedometer.
 Okay.
 There we go.
 All right.
 All right.
 So we're still posting our archives on doctorfutureshow.com.
 We're still posting our links there.
 And we have our windows open.
 So you're going to hear all of the trucks going on the beach here.
 Get your finger on the mute.
 Okay.
 Yeah, we go.
 Be helpful.
 Yes.
 Yeah, go walkie-talkie style now.
 You just push go when you want to talk.
 And the rest of the time, we're listening.
 Now this story, Mrs. Future, found somewhat less than scintillating.
 But I thought it was interesting.
 Well, I just think when we're doing future news and we're talking about Martian rocks,
 it's not exactly breaking news.
 Well, look at the headline here.
 Perseverance finds popcorn on planet Mars.
 Popcorn.
 Now, does that get your attention?
 Well, how did perseverance know it was popcorn?
 Well, that's what I want to know.
 So I delve deeply into the article to see what it was.
 And of course, it was clickbait.
 Of course.
 Yeah, it wasn't popcorn at all on Mars.
 It was textured rock.
 Mm-hmm.
 Yeah.
 And I'm looking at the picture and it's totally clickbait.
 There is nothing there that looks like popcorn.
 I know you've got to look for the textured rock.
 It's Martian rocks.
 It's textured.
 You know?
 The future is going to last a super long time.
 The future is just going to keep marching forward again and again and again forever.
 And these rocks are just now making it to the Doctor Future show.
 And they've probably been on Mars forever.
 And it's going to be a long time before they get to have breaking news coverage again.
 But here they are rocks.
 So what's the news?
 You like Mrs. Future?
 Subtle details matter sometimes.
 And when a rock is textured differently than its surrounding rocks, that tells you something.
 That's a bigger story.
 Oh, there you go.
 The subtle flavor of the variation, the spice of life.
 There's the boulders around Mount Washburn.
 Uh-huh.
 And the rocks that were exposed, exposed by the sun and available for the cameras to
 see, they were lighter toned than everything surrounding them.
 Well, Doctor Future, I admire your passion.
 But why?
 Why?
 These rocks have sharp ridges in them too.
 Why do they have mineral veins in them?
 Why are they densely hacked with small spheres?
 Inquiring minds want to know.
 Yes, the small spheres is the clickbait.
 Small spheres is the popcorn.
 Who knew that that was clickbait?
 Only you, darling, would know that popcorn viewed by perseverance on Mars was clickbait.
 I don't know that a lot of people would know that that was clickbait.
 Well, popcorn were the deeper meaning.
 But why?
 Does this suggest that maybe some kind of water flow had moved this rock from upstream,
 that they were put into position through sonic manipulations of ancient Egyptians that
 happened to be living on Mars at the time?
 Oh, is that what happened?
 Is that in the article?
 No, no, no, that's not in the article.
 That's in your brain.
 Likely not.
 Hopefully it was because of some kind of earthquake.
 Earthquake.
 Yeah.
 I mean, Mars quake.
 Falcon is an earthquake, water flow.
 Wind.
 Something like this.
 Exposure to the sun.
 They do have those giant storms that blow all the rocks around, right?
 Yeah, that's right.
 They have the abrasion tool.
 That's what they're going to use.
 In this case, the abrasion tool is going to be pulled out and it's going to take a close
 up look at this new rock.
 By studying it very closely, we'll be able to see what its chemical makeup is.
 Ooh, so perseverance is going to go over and sandpaper that rock and get a sense of
 what's inside.
 What's inside?
 Okay.
 Go perseverance.
 They're calling this exploration Bright Angel.
 Oh, well, that's a nice name.
 What's angelic about it?
 Well, I guess it's kind of pretty.
 Popcorn, angels, sandpapering into the real story of how this rock came out.
 Got there and what it's made of.
 Yeah, textured rock.
 We'll see what happens.
 Okay.
 You know, I really noticed that we seem to have entered this really random time in history
 where things that are coming together are coming together in ways that just defy expectation.
 It's the old Terrence McKenna forecast that not only is reality stranger than we imagine,
 it's stranger than we can imagine.
 So I don't want to be negative about it, but it is kind of like Babylon.
 But that's fine for a radio show.
 That's fine.
 I'm sure it's very entertaining.
 Rock is kind of boring, but sometimes it's not.
 And I think this is a, there's some people.
 Pick bait rock is news.
 All right.
 How about, how about something more relevant to the now?
 How about the fact that Julian Assange has been released?
 Now we're talking.
 Now that is a headline that probably is getting suppressed with all the other things that the
 free press likes to suppress.
 Okay.
 Let's hear about Julian Assange.
 Thank you, Julian.
 Free Julian.
 Free Julian.
 Yeah.
 Free Julian.
 Absolutely.
 All us people are so happy that this giant miscarriage of justice is finally being addressed.
 Sorry, Mike Pence.
 I don't agree with you that releasing news that makes our military have to question themselves
 is something that should be punished for life.
 I'm sorry.
 We do not want our journalists to be muzzled.
 He was put into the tiny box in the back of a transport vehicle and sat there for three
 hours and there were like 40 policemen guarding the transport vehicle.
 40 policemen in helicopter above.
 40.
 Yeah, 40.
 40.
 That is not.
 Surrounding it.
 I'm like, what does he expect to do?
 Is he going to do a Houdini on us or something?
 Is he's about to get released?
 Well, no, I think this is kind of like when presidents have like 50 pens when they're
 signing some really important historic bill.
 These 40 police officers all want to brag that they were like there on the final days
 of Julian Assange, you know?
 You think so?
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 And some of them want to brag that they got to let him go free and some of them want to
 brag that they put him in the box and you know, they all have different stories that
 they want to tell, but they all wanted to be there because, you know, it's legendary.
 It's like participating in the legend.
 Yeah, that's true.
 What do you think, Bobby?
 It should have happened a long time ago.
 I mean, it's unfortunate that he had to suffer all these years in prison.
 Yeah.
 It's not unfortunate.
 It's absolutely paints a portrait of what our military industrial complex and the politicians
 who are of that yolk think about free speech.
 They've had three generations of becoming professional liars and using the power of
 the media to hypnotize people so we don't even know what's real anymore.
 And this is how they treat someone who turned secret information loose on the internet because
 they're not ashamed of themselves.
 They think if this secret had just been kept, then there wouldn't have been a problem and
 they want to blame the messenger.
 This is a total kill the messenger story.
 Do you guys know?
 Do you have any details about the plea deal?
 About what?
 The plea deal.
 The plea deal.
 A little bit here, a little bit.
 We have one paragraph about it and one paragraph about Mike Pence's response.
 Okay.
 So we have James Clapper making a comment about the plea deal.
 Okay, so he plead guilty to a single charge under the Espionage Act in order to go free.
 And James Clapper, who is the director of the US National Intelligence in 2010, when
 Assange and his WikiLeaks organization published the secret US intelligence documents with
 other newspapers, including the Guardian.
 James Clapper told CNN, quote, "I actually think this came out pretty well.
 Critical to this was his plea of one count of espionage."
 So I don't know more than that about what the espionage, but Clapper says that he's
 paid his dues.
 There was a damage assessment done at the time.
 There was concern, but Clapper doesn't recall any direct proof that assets in Afghanistan
 and Iraq supporting or helping the US were exposed.
 So that's, I guess, where we were militarily at the time.
 Here's another piece to the puzzle here.
 There is a Dame Victoria Sharp, the president of the King's Bench Division of the High Court,
 and Mr. Justice Johnson ruled there was an arguable case that Assange, he could be discriminated
 against after being told that a US prosecutor had said the First Amendment might not cover
 foreigners in matters of national security.
 Sure.
 Yeah.
 Because he was a foreigner.
 Because he was a foreigner.
 Because he was a foreigner.
 Military justice and totally throw away the Constitution if they can put non-Americans
 into jail and Guantanamo.
 They can't put US law on him.
 He's not an American.
 He didn't do it in the US.
 Right.
 That's fantastic news in any case.
 Wow.
 So Michael Moore, the filmmaker, put up the bail for Assange, and so he gets to share
 the glory here.
 His quote is that the good people of this world will never forget your sacrifice.
 He says Assange will face no further harassment or threats from the American government, but
 14 years of his life was stolen from him by a government of yes, war criminals.
 They were never able to lay a hand on him.
 Let's just review.
 My memory of what he was in jail for in England was basically dodging bail.
 He was basically supposed to go to court.
 He was out on bail.
 He was supposed to go to court for his final arraignment, and he didn't go in.
 That was his big crime that they picked him up for and put him in.
 The reason that they were picking him up in the first place and that he had bail was because
 somewhere in Sweden.
 Yeah.
 Sweden, there had been a woman who accused him of rape, and that was kind of trumped up
 charges.
 Those charges were dropped, but after those charges were dropped, he still was held in
 custody all this time because the reason that they wanted him in custody is because maybe
 the US wanted to have him come to the US for war crimes for Wikileaks.
 That's not what he was picked up for.
 That's not what the justice system was being used for.
 It was just this little backroom deal between our two governments, the of England and the
 US, to make sure this journalists taught a lesson to all the other journalists because
 their assault on our free speech is really the big war that's going on right now.
 Bobby and I heard his father speak when we went to see RFK in San Jose.
 You saw Julian Assange's father speak?
 Yes.
 He was at the RFK rally earlier this year, or rather than last year.
 In San Jose, it was very, very moving.
 What was the essence of his communication?
 He is a very mild, gentle soul, very soft-spoken and highly intellectual and articulate.
 He spoke about the supreme injustice of this entire procedure.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Well, you know, our jailers in this world have a mindset that it's okay to torture the people
 in their care because as controllers, they can think of them as lesser human beings.
 They can think of them as people who don't deserve the protection of law.
 They can think of them as weak and incapable of fighting back.
 The way that our jail system has become a system of bullying and intimidation instead
 of an expression of our human capacity to learn from our mistakes and grow in our consciousness
 is a sad statement of the times that we're in.
 Yeah.
 Well, at least he's free now.
 Now we'll see what happens.
 I think we had to look at some deeper issues here, like the reason we have national security
 because the other people, why do we need to torture because the other people do?
 Why do we have hypersonic missiles because they do?
 We need to have a higher form of logic than that.
 Yeah, we can't just have big monkeys in charge of all the money saying, "Give me more.
 Give me more," because I said so.
 Because they have one.
 Because they have one.
 Yeah, any excuse will do.
 How do you address that simple excuse for national security?
 Well, it's very difficult for the freedom-loving, distributed consciousness of America to come
 together in a unified way around something like protecting an individual from a bully
 government.
 It's hard to do.
 It's really easy for that aggregated entity to pick on someone and to use that as a way
 of making sure nobody takes his side.
 Well, that's it.
 It's about sides.
 It's about sides.
 It's us and them.
 When a biological metaphor, the national security is part of the immune system, you
 know, friend or foe.
 Yeah.
 Keep the eye on this.
 Keep the national security.
 It's supposed to keep us alive.
 It's our immune system.
 That's the thing.
 It's not corporate immune system.
 It's people's immune system.
 Yeah.
 They're part of the payroll of these three-letter agencies.
 They have a lot of input.
 Yes.
 Because a lot of these military contracts, defense contracts, are done by these large
 corporations that are evolving door between that and government.
 Yes.
 So they're greasing each other's hands in and out of this revolving door.
 I was very surprised and actually shocked when the whole thing went down.
 However, many...
 God, it was so long ago.
 What was it?
 2003.
 That was five.
 Now, almost 15 years ago, it worked all these 10 years ago, that people who I thought were
 like-minded at least a little bit and people who just came out and said, well, he violated
 espionage.
 He endangered Americans' lives.
 And as far as I know, none of that information actually resulted.
 I don't...
 Yeah.
 It's a big topic.
 It really is.
 And it's going to bring up a lot to discuss and it's going to be curious how he thinks
 about it at this point in time as well.
 As Snowden behind the Iron Curtainer right now.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Speaking of Snowden, maybe just a good little moment, another comment from the Guardian.
 In the coverage of this, they quoted Tulsi Gabbard, former congresswoman, and she says,
 this never should have happened.
 But finally Assange is free, the press freedom group called PEN, Pen America, which had long
 called for the charges to be dropped, were really glad that this happened.
 And they said the charges targeted activity routinely undertaken by journalists in the
 course of their work to expose wrongdoing and hold the powerful to account.
 And their comment is that this guilty plea on this single count should not be construed
 as setting a precedent for further prosecutions or convictions of journalists under the Espionage
 Act.
 The PEN group calls for a reform of the Espionage Act to include an exception for information
 disclosures that advance the public interest and by...
 Yes.
 And Trump have yet to comment on the plea deal.
 So I just wanted all that to be part of our conversation.
 Thank you for completing that.
 Okay.
 Appreciate it.
 Thank you.
 That was wonderful.
 That's what...
 The next chapter two was about to begin.
 We're going to sign off.
 We've got a busy...
 It's a day.
 Great having you guys.
 Thanks for joining us on the early part of the show and have a great time out there.
 Thank you.
 We're going for a hike.
 All right.
 Happy holidays, guys.
 We'll see you next time.
 Great.
 Okay.
 My best to Greg.
 Okay everyone.
 Okay.
 Bye bye.
 Bye.
 Bye.
 Did you just invite someone new into the...
 Yes, this was the person.
 Nick Venden.
 Nick Venden who was representing us at the show.
 Oh yes.
 AWE 2024.
 Okay.
 And this is a fantastic show that we've been going to for a number of years now, the
 Augmented World Expo.
 And this year was held down in Long Beach.
 And we have Greg Panos who was speaking there.
 And we'll get a little bit of a download on what he had to share with the Augmented
 World Expo audience.
 And we had our very own dedicated coverage from Nick.
 Venden can start with Greg and give people a little reminder of what's so great about
 Augmented World Expo and maybe some of the things that you were bringing up this year,
 Greg, what did you talk about at Augmented World Expo?
 Well I gave a talk on virtual immortality in XR.
 Oh yeah?
 Wow.
 So XR is the catchphrase for VR, MR, AR.
 They settled on XR.
 Now all I have to say about that is hardy hard hard.
 Hello.
 Hi Nick.
 Hi Nick.
 So they were asking me about my talk and you were in the audience.
 So I was so busy giving the talk.
 I didn't really sense anything about the talk.
 So maybe you could talk about it.
 Oh you didn't.
 I have quite a bit to say about it.
 I was going around saying I need something compelling to talk about at the Doctor Future
 Show.
 And the most compelling thing that happened for me was Gregory's talk.
 It always is.
 He's such a thought leader.
 I really appreciate how aware he is of what exists now and where it's all going.
 That's always been such a light.
 And significantly he was very generous.
 One of the first things that popped up was a QR code for all of the assets for his talk.
 Everything.
 Oh.
 Very, very generous and people were holding up their cell phones and getting the QR code
 and he showed it again at the end.
 So he gave away his talk which was hardcore information about leads and URLs, everything.
 Surprisingly his mother introduced him and it was a virtual head and shoulder of his deceased
 mother.
 Wow.
 And when she did introduce him there was a pause I think more for the technology that
 Gregory had put together, cobbled together to make this happen.
 He had taken existing videos and made a virtual head and shoulders version of his mother.
 And it was rigged and the mouth and everything was talking and she introduced it.
 And at the end she thanked him and he closed it out.
 Very, very, very cool.
 Wow.
 Very great.
 How often are you communicating with your digital mom Greg?
 The first young mom Greg.
 From beyond the grave.
 Did she give you permission from beyond the grave?
 It was her voice as well.
 He had taken the voice all, every card you can find and entered them into an MLM model I
 think.
 Yeah.
 I trained a machine learning model on her voice and it was her voice.
 I'm sure she'll just keep getting better every year.
 Yeah, my friend who was helping me model and put it together so it's progressively getting
 better and better and better.
 Yeah, exactly.
 Exactly.
 And I had a slide where I showed the whole workflow of how I created it.
 And like Nick said I gave away all the slides and then there are lots of links to companies
 and terminologies and videos that were all active in the slide deck.
 I could send it to you.
 Definitely.
 Do you want us to post it on the archive?
 Yeah, it'd be fun to put your, yeah, okay.
 The QR code.
 We'll put the QR code up on the archive.
 Everybody ought to be digitizing their parents.
 Yeah, yeah.
 I mean every therapist who loved to have people's virtual moms to play with.
 Greg was talking about that he had scanned himself in every decade or so so that he has
 a real record of his body and his type and his changes in his self.
 He said he's the most scanned person on earth.
 I'm sure he's right.
 Well, I'll tell you when we have had the chance to go hang out with Greg in VR Worlds, he
 always looks like he's the height of fashion.
 He's in his mature prime and he's dancing and he's well dressed and I like to go into
 the Oscars.
 Going to the Oscars.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 No, no, he looked great actually.
 I had to fix his collar, I was there in proxy for his friend who would probably be fixing
 his collar and make sure he had water.
 But I mean, that was very, very cool and very generous of him and there was so much
 information.
 It was just a torrent of information about all these technology, all these scanning
 companies and softwares.
 Yeah, yeah.
 When you see that, was there any really lightweight glasses that could do XR?
 Was there anything, any new types of gear?
 There were quite a few actually.
 I have cut sheets from all kinds of things so I could pull them up.
 But I always get sick of these conferences so I don't always put these devices on.
 I almost always walk away from SIGGRAPH, but the flu or something.
 But I did see is a lot of the same, the AR things, picking moving things around in the
 air and taking your pencil and writing and it doesn't seem much of an improvement from
 four or five years ago.
 I guess the big thing this year was whether or not Apple Vision Pro is making any inroads.
 Chris Greg and I at the VR Museum, which was organized by USC and there was a gentleman
 from Bretton who contributed these devices, but there was a little semicircle of all the
 NASA devices, all of the Oculus, all of the, and at the end of that, when you exit, there
 was Apple Vision Pro demo.
 It consisted of museum pictures on the wall of the technology, but they were positioned
 at a virtual room around you, but there's also in the center, there was a little pedestal,
 two pedestals.
 But Greg and I both thought the anchoring was so solid that there's never any of those
 ugly shifts that happened in your perception and the experience.
 It was so well anchored.
 You seemed to move and look everywhere and it was stable.
 They've really got it down in terms of solid stability.
 A few people I did talk to, there was a gentleman at Spatial Explorer, he said, "I'm developing
 for this headset because that's really the best."
 When he was working for Disney, he did that Star Wars experience where he took all the
 video and audio assets and recreated some scenes.
 But he's trying to cobble together a whole mess of short form videos from content for
 this company of his, but he had an Apple Vision Pro there.
 It was very, very solid.
 It's not a understand, it's got the best look and feel in terms of image and quality and
 stability.
 Yes, the first time I tried one, it had a wide field of view, very good pass through.
 Like Nick said, the virtual objects that were suspended in the space around me were just
 rock solid.
 They didn't just shift or wiggle or do anything at all when I got around them.
 I was pretty impressed.
 How about the comfort of wearing it?
 It was about as comfortable as any of the other face hugging visors.
 Any new compelling stories being told on it that you could see?
 Well, there were some other demos around the show floor.
 I just wanted to try the hardware one time and I didn't really do too intensive, a tour
 of the show floor.
 Nick maybe saw Marvus and I did.
 What about 3D?
 I heard that the Spatial video, 3D supposed to be amazing.
 I didn't see any of that.
 I think I missed that as well.
 Yeah, the one demo I did at the museum with the photographs hanging around, there wasn't
 any 3D video on that.
 But eventually I got a chance to see that.
 Also I tried the Oculus Man of Quest 3, which I never tried.
 That's the newest one because I have a Metacrest Pro, which I like because it's open air around
 the eyes.
 It looked really good.
 It had really good pass through and wasn't too heavy.
 I got to see a demo that Phillips company in the Netherlands created a volumetric video
 of a guy dribbling a basketball and you can walk all the way around him while he's dribbling
 the basketball.
 And he just stayed anchored to wherever you set him.
 And that also had another basketball game, it was kind of like a window where you were
 looking through the window.
 But all the players were obviously 3D playing.
 If you shifted your head back and forth, you could see that.
 So they were captured volumetrically with a 3-camera array.
 And then the guy that was separate, a separate demo, I think they used a number of cameras
 to capture that in an array.
 Does that what they did?
 It takes the place of motion capture, 3-camera.
 Yeah, they don't have to specifically put markers on the people that are in the scene
 in order to capture their motion.
 Makes it easier to do that, volumetric.
 Yeah, it's like a shell.
 It's creating a shell around their form that is textured.
 So you can't really see the shell.
 If you turn off the textured, you see kind of like a blobby person.
 You get a point cloud basically.
 Right.
 Yeah, that was pretty impressive.
 So that means that this stuff is coming.
 The three-dimensional video.
 Yeah, it sounds like it might be less data intensive than some of the stuff you were doing
 with the one camera going around the object.
 It sounds like it might be just a lot more efficient.
 Yeah, well, I used my scanner phone to scan Palmer Locky.
 It started a little boculus.
 Yeah, did he speak at the same time as you, Frank?
 No, no.
 He spoke like an hour or two later, an hour and a half later.
 Oh, okay.
 Yay.
 My talk was pretty well attended.
 The room was about three-quarter full.
 I got a lot of compliments from people that came to it later.
 And they're going to be hosting it on YouTube.
 Fantastic.
 So I'll send you the link.
 Oh, fantastic.
 And then I scanned a number of other people who were VR luminaries and people that are
 relatively significant.
 So I got the 3D scan, those people.
 Yes.
 For those of you who know, his other alter ego is a Scandi Warhol.
 Yeah.
 Scandy was busy, right?
 Yeah.
 So I had to remember that I had the scanner in my pocket.
 Anybody was interesting that I talked to.
 I wanted to scan them.
 Dr. Gregg, if he likes you, you'll get scans.
 That's right.
 Yeah, the liking you is the qualifying factor.
 Yeah.
 Well, speaking of liking, Gregg, I just want to know what did the show think where the
 highlights this year?
 Who won the prizes and what was really noteworthy?
 And one of the things about the AWE is they give the Augie Awards.
 And how did you feel about the awards this year?
 Did you agree?
 Were you impressed?
 What do you think?
 I had to leave the Augie Awards early.
 So I can't really tell you.
 But if you go to AWE 2024 on the internet, search for Augie Awards.
 You'll see who the winners are.
 Okay.
 And they'll be links to their work or the company that got those awards.
 What did AI--
 Did they buy a few of them?
 Did AI make any impression this year on the AWE?
 Yeah.
 AI was integrated into pretty much every talk and panel.
 One of the sessions was about resurrecting the sort of essence of Ada Lovelace and integrated
 AI and stable diffusion video.
 So it was kind of a real-time animation while the speaker was talking.
 That's online already.
 Hey, I'm actually looking at it since you reminded me.
 I just thought maybe that would be something you guys had tracked.
 But I know how it is when you're at a show, what you catch is just so unpredictable.
 Yeah.
 What was funny about this year, the last few years up in Santa Clara, I would see people
 I would know and when they were there, I would see them.
 And at this one, the Augie convention center is very big and it's very sort of linear.
 You have to walk all the way down one way and all the way down another way.
 It wasn't really a specific place for people around a view.
 There was the lobby, which is enormous, and then people were passing through the lobby
 going different ways.
 So you would see them if you stood around long enough in the lobby, but it didn't have the
 same smoothing potential to run into pretty much every that you knew.
 Like last year, quite a few people showed up that I knew that I did not see at all, but
 I heard that they were there and I saw pictures later that they were there and I'm like,
 how did I miss them?
 The logistics, they're going to be there next year in Long Beach.
 So that's great.
 I lived down in Long Beach.
 Yeah, no, it's right in your backyard.
 So they were like it.
 It's really convenient to go over there.
 That's why we went here.
 It used to be in Santa Clara now.
 Well, listen, apparently I'm just looking at the Augu Awards.
 The best head worn device winner was the MetaQuest 3.
 Oh, really?
 Which was your favorite?
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Good one.
 That's only like $5.99.
 Yeah.
 The best developer tool is considered eighth walls Meta-versal deployment by Niantic.
 Are you familiar with that?
 You mean you do that?
 Yeah.
 They made the Pokemon AR hunt.
 Uh-huh.
 The best content creators was awarded to between realities.
 I wonder what they're creating.
 And the best consumer app is called Pillow.
 Do you know Pillow?
 Yeah.
 Oh, that's the thing in the bed.
 The other girls.
 Pillow was developed by Lucas Rosota.
 What does the thing in the bed do?
 Lucas Rosoto.
 Oh, he is so great.
 I remember when he did.
 Wasn't he the fellow who did the dream experience a few years ago?
 Yeah.
 He had a really interesting project on his own.
 And he got tired of not being able to lie down and do VR lying down.
 Uh-huh.
 He created Pillow.
 That's why it's called Pillow because you have your head on a pillow.
 You're lying down.
 Oh, that's great.
 The divisor on.
 Uh-huh.
 And it will shift everything so it's like you're sitting up so you can relax and you can
 do VR for a long time while you're lying down instead of sitting up in a chair and having
 all the weight on your neck of the headset.
 Right.
 And part of it's a stargaze.
 There's a ceiling that transforms into 88 constellations from the sky.
 You learn about mythology and it's a relaxing sombath.
 Sounds wonderful.
 Sounds great.
 Yeah.
 I did have some very strong reaction to Lucky Polymer as I called him.
 That name developed as I was watching him.
 Uh-huh.
 Polymer as in Monsanto, as in synthetic.
 So there's this guy, this brilliant man, young man, speaking very clearly.
 A great communicator and it's a product of this genius mind at the service of the military
 because he dropped with a great smile.
 He said, "Well, I'm working on autonomous weapon systems right now."
 And as he went on, he with a big bullet.
 I mean, he just had, he looked more and more like a lesbian rock star from the '70s.
 He kept looking and then I, this lucky polymer, think he dropped into my head and as I was
 up the aisle, they asked, "What would you do?"
 "If you started it over, what kind of content would you be creating?"
 "Well, I think of adult entertainment."
 And I whipped around and I looked at him and he said, "I don't mean pornography, but
 I mean, you know, the great range of wealthy motions."
 And I hit it up the aisle.
 I never saw the end of it.
 But that incredible mind put at the service of autonomous weapon systems, you know, my
 politics don't align with anything.
 So, I had a very strong reaction against the man.
 Lucky, yeah.
 And the man you could tell.
 Well, I mean, do you feel like this is a generational thing that these young men that
 have grown up?
 He's a conservative, you know.
 He's a trumpster.
 You know, he really-
 He's a gamer.
 Yeah.
 He's a big, big gamer.
 Yeah.
 And this is my point.
 Like, I used to have this debate with Roger Nelson all the time of that the VR worlds are
 largely created by men with their interests and priorities and they are largely focused
 on teaching people to be better killers and better thieves and better, like, kind of
 the worst in humanity.
 And Roger Nelson would always just say, "Well, that's just who we are.
 That's just how games are."
 And there's just been something in our society where we're losing track of how to reward
 humans for enhancing humanity.
 And we've taken this turn into turning our best minds over to the war machine.
 Well, not everybody.
 But he's a prime example because here's the guy who helped invent some of the best technology
 to view the worlds like this and he's using the money for defense.
 Well, I think guardians like to feel good about-
 The way I think about it is-
 What they're guarding, sure.
 A biological metaphor.
 I just think of him as part of the species immune system for under control.
 Yes, but can they exist in an ethical way?
 Yes.
 And moving towards a species immune system rather than a nation state immune system,
 which is-
 Well, you know, the entire virtual reality industry would not exist if it were not for
 the military.
 There you go.
 It's all part of a bigger, bigger system.
 All the mental funding, all the breakthroughs, even your cell phone would not have happened
 without all the money being spent on horrific weapons.
 And if we didn't have an immune system, we'd be dead in a situation-
 And many, many technological-
 ... that have trickled down into normal consumer-like companies.
 So-
 Sorry, I lose this time for the news.
 Look at this.
 Five seconds.
 Five seconds.
 We'll be back.
 We'll be right back to about AWE.
 I think that the military is full of people who value excellence and who do feel like
 they're guarding something that is valuable from every threat.
 And it would be nice if those people would embrace a public image that models heroic
 behavior for all, rather than a public image that sort of acts like the ends justify the
 means and that we don't need to have honorable behavior.
 It's like the code of chivalry needs to be rewritten for the modern military human.
 New rules.
 Great point.
 Well, you know, the kind of technology that Palmer is working on, if he was able to have
 delivered that two or three years ago, Ukraine would have already won the war against Russia.
 That's interesting.
 What he's been building is what they desperately need.
 Yeah.
 And it's not particularly ready yet, but I know a lot about it.
 I've worked in the defense industry, not willingly, because I was in the space industry
 and we got shifted over to defense before I decided I didn't want to do that anymore.
 The way that business is played, you have to bribe senators and judges and every friggin'
 person in the government to get a contract because there's three or four other manufacturers
 that are going for the same contract.
 They've got a lot of money set aside to grease the skids so they get awarded to them.
 So he's to compete against Boeing and Lockheed and McDonald Douglas and Raytheon for these
 little micro drone projects, every scope of every project that they're proposing.
 They're all in on it.
 So he had Trump over at his house and had a last fundraiser for Trump before Trump lost
 because he knows that that's the way the game is played.
 And if he's nice to all those people and he gives them money and rubs their back that
 they're going to prove his contracts, he's a relatively small defense contractor and
 it's really unheard of for those little companies to get these big contracts because they just
 don't have the people or the bandwidth to bribe all these officials.
 That's what it takes to win these contracts.
 It's not about how good the technology is.
 He has a much better technology than they do and it's a lot cheaper.
 So from a public expending point of view, there got to be spending money for defense makes
 more sense to hand the contracts to this guy.
 Yeah.
 It's hard to know how to improve on the system because politics is just inherently smoke
 and mirrors, cloak and dagger.
 Nobody likes it.
 They don't like him because of it.
 You know, a lot of the VR people are pacifists and I'm a bit of a...
 Well, I'm not a pacifist.
 I'm very practical and I just feel like we don't want to lead with hatred and callousness
 and we want to lead with our humanity and we want our leaders to be truthful and honest
 and having a need to be automating robots to take care of the war machine is like we've
 taken a wrong turn.
 Yeah.
 We're not doing what as humans we should be doing.
 We need to prioritize some other agenda.
 Yeah.
 Well, sadly, the best deterrent for war is, you know, death and destruction and it's
 kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 If people die, then they think twice about having gone to war or having things kill on
 the people.
 If it's all just robots fighting each other, it's just one big video game with the planet
 being the thing that takes the hit and we just happen to be on the planet at the same
 time and it messes up like for us.
 So the idea of autonomous warfare, just weapons, fighting weapons with people on joysticks
 at locations, it's just sort of a third video game.
 We have to spiritually evolve.
 Welcome back.
 We are talking about Julian Assange initially in his release from prison today and we were
 talking about augmented world expo and it's very interesting that these two seemingly
 disparate topics are combining into the politics of...
 How do we make ethical robots if we're not even going to make ethical humans?
 Well, we're talking about Lucky Palmer and his sort of conservative, Trumpist politics.
 I am not anti-inservative.
 I am pro-conservative.
 I am pro-anderel.
 Creating weapons that could have ended the Ukraine war months ago if they existed.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, there seems to be a lack of agreement in our political system about when is the
 best time to ward off the bullies.
 Like before the war started, it would have been a good time.
 No, during the break, Gregory was talking about how he used to work on contracts with
 the defense industry.
 You made some interesting points about that.
 Yeah, I worked on creating visualizations for brilliant pebbles, kinetic kill vehicles,
 space-based lasers.
 You mean the Star Wars program?
 Yeah, Star Wars.
 So I created computer animation that was in support of the proposals that the company
 was responding to and there was lots of money in those contracts.
 Anybody that knew anything knew that it wasn't practical to build any of these weapons at
 this point in time.
 Spending all that money was too early and not enough.
 Do you think, Greg, that a lot of guys such as you, brilliant guys, feel that somehow
 when they get to the end of their days and they look back on their life and they've contributed
 their genius to making these machines that maybe have destroyed lives or whatever, that
 they just say, "Well, I thought it was just a game and I thought that what I was doing
 was safer than maybe being out there doing real harm and maybe somehow they're excusing
 themselves from taking moral responsibility for the consequences of their choices and
 what they do with their intelligence during their life."
 Well, I think if they're religious, they could just pray away the shame, which is what
 a lot of people do for all their bad deeds.
 So you think people are actually engaging in behavior that they consider shameful?
 You think that somehow they contributed to something that killed people, if it really
 kind of hits them in the face and they're aware of it, then their consciousness has to
 respond somehow, has to review that kind of information and consider it?
 Well, don't you think that they're doing it because somehow they're rationalizing it
 as more valuable?
 Well, as the defense of your country, as to defend your freedom?
 Not necessarily.
 I think most people do it because there's a good paycheck involved in steady work and
 they have a family to feed and a house, more gifts to pay for.
 Yeah, I see what you're saying.
 Any number of jobs they can be taking, and it turns out this is the one that they can
 do.
 So, really the Headless Monster Syndrome, they're just too small to affect the conscience of
 their work.
 So they're just ants in an ant hill, and the ant hill is making choices that they're not
 responsible for.
 A small participant in a much larger collective outcome for which there's no...
 Yeah, and there isn't any sort of back attribution towards any single individual.
 People are loyal, people who are loyal to those that give them their paycheck.
 But if you're protecting your country from an attack, our parents and grandparents,
 they all have various experiences dealing with the defense of our country and neither
 ...
 Yeah, I'm not saying it's not real, but there's also evidence to show that a lot of war is
 a racket.
 Well, yeah, and I want to go a little Dennis because Cinich on you here is that I basically
 feel that the magic of being human is that we have these thoughts that we can communicate
 with each other and we can amplify the power of those thoughts by making something real.
 And if we don't use that power for creating something that makes a better future, then
 our creativity is wasted.
 And why do we spend so much visualizing and projecting that humanity is all enemies fighting
 each other?
 And why don't we project much more that humanity is a great team sport where we're trying to
 bring out the excellence in each other?
 It's just a different idea to apply our brilliance to.
 Yeah, greed and fear.
 No, but you could be greedy and still reward people for creating excellence instead of
 destruction.
 Instead of wasting resources instead of controlling through fear and oppression, you could just
 as easily profit from something that creates a bigger pie, more wealth, more paradise,
 more happy people.
 In fact, you could create a larger profit if you were aiming for the thing that more people
 would give their best to.
 I agree with you.
 And you guys know because you scan for various interesting news in the tech sector all the
 time.
 And there's a lot of really good stuff going on in this energy sector and agriculture and
 in pollution cleanup.
 And so there's plenty to look at that's optimistic and forward looking and beneficial to society.
 I just think that because we're a fear based species and somehow news has been monetized
 in greed rules, the monetization, we've all the bad stuff is the stuff that activates
 everybody that they tune in on right away.
 And then they get to sell you toothpaste yourself because you're watching all the bad shit happen,
 even though they ought to be a good news channel.
 I remember Barbara Mark Hubbard had the concept of the peace room.
 Yeah, you hear about the war room and it's all decked out with all the latest plays and
 tech and you're watching everything get blown up all over the place.
 But the idea of a peace room using the same display technology and immersive experience
 where you would find every good thing, every good deed is being displayed all around you.
 You have a different perspective of what's going on in the world.
 If you were constrained, you just the good news, just the fun and loving and happy things
 going on.
 Well, I'm not talking about being constrained to it.
 I'm talking about recognizing how we're abusing our priorities because we're not constrained
 to good news.
 We're actually putting our foot on the gas pedal for the bad news.
 Yeah, I know.
 That's where the priorities are.
 It's human nature, don't you think?
 No, I don't think it's human nature.
 I think it's the nature of a very few kinds of humans that are sociopathic, that know
 how to grab the range of control and the store.
 Because they want it.
 I don't want to run for office.
 Gregory doesn't want to run for office.
 Nobody wants to do those jobs except those who want those things.
 That's why there's an AI running for office in UK, an AI running for office and maybe
 it'll be a better distributor of the wealth than humans.
 Oh, you want to change the subject?
 Yeah, I did know now.
 We got a comment.
 We got a comment.
 Gabb says, I don't know if you can be greedy while promoting positivity.
 It's antithetical to greed.
 She says greed is fear based.
 Her understanding.
 Well, you know, I don't think all desire to succeed in business is based on greed.
 And I don't think war necessarily.
 I do think there's a profit motive that drives a huge bunch of the energy.
 But I think that beyond greed, it's much more to do with a worldview that is fundamentally
 elitist, controlling, lacking in empathy, lacking in a sense of good sportsmanship and
 good will for the human race.
 I think it's a certain kind of leadership that is just mean spirited.
 We should not be modeling that.
 We should be modeling heroic humans.
 We want heroic humans in charge of the way that we're guiding ourselves.
 Well, I'll tell you now's our chance.
 Now's our chance because I just noticed that runway is just coming in with Gen 3 that allows
 you to have photorealistic full motion avatars.
 So you can start becoming your own Cecil B. DeMille with virtual actors.
 I covered a lot of the different companies like Cynthia and Unique and a number of them
 that I have links on my...
 How about runway or peak labs?
 No, I didn't go into specific AI online service or product offerings in terms of AI based video
 because I was trying to constrain it to photorealistic human simulation of a known person, somebody
 that you knew.
 And you can use these programs to create animations, but it's harder to do them of somebody that's
 photorealistic of a person that you're trying to get it to.
 You have to train them with photographs or you have to submit photographs and upload them
 for it to build a model of a person that it can use in its animation.
 But they're evolving in such a way where it won't be very long before you can add your
 personalization.
 Mid-journey is rolling out a lot of personalization options now and people are starting to get
 excited about that.
 So all the other services eventually will realize that they have to have the capability to
 create a photorealistic version of a person that's utilizing the program if they're so
 desired.
 The fact that that has what's called deep fake potential is kind of putting the brakes
 on some of the roll out of this stuff.
 Microsoft recently introduced VASA1, V-A-S-A-1.
 With that one, all you give is a single photo, front-facing photo, and audio of the person
 speaking.
 And it does everything else.
 It builds the model, it animates it, it moves it in the head around in a natural way.
 It's perfectly synced, the eyes work perfectly well, and the first thing that happened is
 everyone went nuts over the fact that it had such high deep fake potential.
 Yeah, really.
 That was the first thought.
 It was the first thought.
 And so easily.
 Rather than seeing how this could empower there would be a filmmaker.
 Yeah, so Microsoft is holding back on rolling it out.
 But while they're doing that, you've got Baidu and Tencent out of China that are just
 releasing their own versions of it.
 It's like, "Fuck it, let's just let it go out of the world."
 Well, that's interesting.
 In this case, the Chinese are giving us more freedom than our own people.
 Yeah, but it's kind of a Trojan horse.
 They're giving us an uprope to hang ourselves.
 Yes, in how to speak.
 Well, to be able to create whatever you want with your own avatars?
 I don't know.
 I think that's a real freedom to be able to.
 It's like a writer with a pencil where you can create anything.
 Yeah.
 I mean, getting obsessed with putting limitations on our tools because we might offend somebody,
 it gets kind of old, you know?
 Especially for those who want to tell more edgy stories.
 Yeah, it's a whole story of adult entertainment too, all the limitations of adult...
 Yeah, it all folds in with what's allowed and what's not.
 Right.
 But maybe it's because of the message that we can't trust ourselves.
 I do think that the people who are the most involved in creating limitations are the ones
 who are the most fearful that somehow we're going to do something that's going to kill
 us off instead of something that's going to bring out the best in us.
 I just envision a future like 100 years from now where we've completely blown ourselves
 up and the only thing running our servers with simulations of us.
 The aliens come and visit.
 You know, they're greeted and they're welcomed down to the planet.
 They're invited to utilize or take whatever resources they wish.
 And we're all just a bunch of smiling faces on the screen talking about our grandchildren.
 Now, Seagrig, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
 Happy lives.
 Happy people.
 Very happy, yes.
 I know that you're a great comedian and I know that you very much value being here,
 but you are one of the most nihilistic people I know.
 And you're always so fascinated with the worst case scenario and you're not alone.
 I could probably do a talk on Twilight Zone episodes and movies where this was like the
 plot line.
 Yeah.
 So I didn't necessarily invent it myself.
 Yeah.
 I'm just really interested in reframing the way that we use our words and use our thoughts
 and use our media so that we recognize that we only have so many minutes of attention
 to give to the day.
 And what we do with those minutes of attention is a creative force.
 And you spend half your time figuring out how to kill as much life as possible.
 You're going to live in a world where half your time was spent erasing stuff.
 And if you put that same time into creating something that is more fun, then you're going
 to live in a world where that's what you created.
 That's why I left the face industry because I was now in the defense industry and it was
 boring to me and I didn't want to spend the rest of my life doing any of that.
 Yeah.
 Gab says it's already happening, Greg.
 This is that.
 This is all a simulation.
 We are that.
 Beat for yourself.
 Yeah.
 No, Greg is busy creating the actual simulation.
 He's been.
 No, he's not the simulator.
 He's not the replicant.
 Well, I'm trying to fine tune a simple process that anybody can take advantage of.
 We all lose our loved ones.
 We all have friends that die or they get sick.
 Some of the links on my slide deck were about people who have been given a cancer diagnosis
 and they want to create an AI of themselves to leave behind.
 Yeah, yeah.
 They're all having an aha moment.
 I mean, I literally wrote this stuff down and published a paper about it in 1991.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, I can see it.
 I knew that it would be a common thought in the future.
 The technology improved that it would become a desire that people would want to somehow
 take steps prior to their demise to authenticate and to push out into the world.
 Some version of themselves is just more optimized, uber version of them to a better version
 of them.
 Yeah, why not?
 And next time I visit the family mausoleum, it's a party.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 Some actually had to do the idea of digital gravestones.
 Oh, yeah.
 It was a long time ago, but I'm thinking you would go to a gravestone with like an Apple
 Vision Pro and read a QR code and then all of a sudden somebody would spring up from
 the ground and start dancing on the stone and say, "Hi, I'm Joe Schmo.
 I think it's happening here."
 I'll tell you what my life was about.
 Brilliant.
 From welcome stone to stone, from mausoleum to mausoleum, it becomes a place full of life.
 There's more life in the cemetery of the future than there is out on the street.
 Yeah, it's really quite a...
 It's a party.
 Yeah.
 You know, it's really strange also when you stop and think about that it is that these
 cemeteries are also the great repositories of DNA.
 Yes.
 Yeah.
 And they could all be resurrected too with the technology that's coming.
 Yeah.
 And then plug in their virtual minds into it and they'll have the whole Monty.
 Right.
 And then the animation becomes a birthday party.
 Yeah.
 It really seems strange compared to today's reality, but these things and more are becoming
 possibly the new norm.
 Well, speaking of birthday parties, last night I spent a little bit of my time on
 UDO making a birthday.
 Yes.
 That's amazing.
 That's an amazing program.
 I wasn't even curious about any music.
 My friend.
 Yeah.
 And it was great.
 I know.
 I know.
 We made some bumpers for the Dr. Future Show a while back.
 Oh, good.
 So people know UDO is an AI that creates soundscapes and sound effects.
 Do a jingle song.
 Yeah.
 You could do a jingle for the Julian Assange release, for example.
 Oh, OK.
 Great idea.
 And theoretically, you could do a jingle for every story that you're covering on the
 show.
 Well, first thing I usually do is I go to chat GPT and I have it right the lyrics.
 Yeah.
 OK.
 So you're Julian Assange being released, freedom at last.
 Yeah.
 I like the Guardian article that is in our links.
 Really?
 Yeah, we give the AI something to work with.
 Yeah, I'm finding all these little clever things you can do in UDO to make it so it's
 just reading poetry and then voice.
 There's no singing involved.
 Then other ones where there's women singing acapella, you know, the chorus line.
 Julian is free at last.
 Free at last.
 Oh, you don't have to hire a whole bunch of musicians or singers anymore.
 I mean, I could probably finish the Julian music before the show's over.
 Oh, yeah.
 Absolutely.
 I think that would be fun.
 Well, if you want, we can take a little break right now and when we come back, maybe
 you'll have it ready.
 We can give you this.
 Do that.
 Dr. Dan's going to be joining us in a few minutes.
 He's going to give us an update on the whole new strange going on in the COVID world.
 Oh, great.
 All right.
 So listen, let's go for a rather lengthy commercial break.
 And when we come back, we'll have Dr. Dan.
 And when Greg is ready, we'll have a little original AR.
 Sounds good.
 All right.
 Thanks, Nick.
 And thanks, Greg.
 We'll be back.
 All right.
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 Okay, we are back and Dr. Dan is connecting to audio while he's doing that.
 We also have a whole bunch of collars who just decided to check in as well.
 So we'll let them say hi in a moment.
 Okay, there's Dan coming on here.
 Let's unmute you, Dan.
 Yes, I'm very good.
 Get my breath again.
 All right.
 Were you a little underwater there for a minute, Dan?
 Yes, ma'am.
 And so I'm just thinking about what I'd like to bring to the table for today's conversation.
 I just had sin with what you guys have been doing because I've been, of course, with
 patients all day.
 Joe, well, try us.
 We'll see.
 You know, we, of course, you know, Julian Assange has been in the news today, his release.
 I don't have much to say about that.
 Okay.
 On the other hand, National Security State and we have conversations about that.
 And then we got into the augmented world expo, which was all about the new headsets and the
 new technologies coming up.
 How about we ask you a doctor question?
 Do you have one?
 Yeah, well, I'm just curious if you have any insights on whether or not there's a big
 outbreak of COVID happening right now or if it's just normal situation normal.
 What's the COVID situation?
 It's a little bit.
 We're hearing that more people are getting it.
 It's a three day thing and they're fine after that.
 It's kind of like what they're putting the avian flu up as the next best fear machine.
 So we don't see anything that looks insurmountable like we did with the pandemic.
 So this of course spread everywhere.
 People who didn't get COVID and didn't get the shot have either fought it off or they've
 been exposed to it.
 So it's around.
 It's going to be around.
 Most virologists say that it'll be around forever.
 But it can go viruses tend to like to hide until they're terrain or the internal environment
 is right for them to come back out again.
 And so it's a good idea for all of us to go through maybe cycling through our organ systems
 and by taking vitamin D a little bit lower concentrations during the summer because we're
 hopefully getting some sunlight.
 But we all should go through taking an anti parasitic complex.
 We should take an anti viral like olive leaf extract, lysine vitamin A. It's nothing that
 is threatening that we're going to have to close down anything for and that we have to
 wear masks for.
 Oh, thank you, Dr. Dan.
 Just boost our immune system a little bit.
 We should be OK.
 One thing I did notice an unusual twist in the news.
 I'm kind of curious what you think about this is that bird flu moved from dairy cast
 poultry in Michigan.
 Yeah.
 Bird flu from cows to chickens.
 Yeah.
 A team of epidemiologists from.
 Started in cows and now it's in chickens, but how come we're not calling it cow flu?
 Department of Agriculture traced the H5N1 spread to a single herd of dairy cattle that
 had been unknowingly introduced in the spring.
 It's probably a small mutation that occurs with all viruses within seconds, if not weeks.
 So these mutations are constantly occurring on what we call virus.
 We really have such a little understanding of viruses.
 As you can see, nobody knew what to do.
 Fauci said wear a mask.
 No, don't wear a mask.
 Now wear a mask.
 Viruses, of course, you can't see it in a normal microscope.
 We think we see it in an electron microscope.
 And there is something that does spread that does infect people.
 So the answer always comes back to maintain your own terrain, your own base physiology
 and chemistry with probiotics.
 Stop doing bad habits.
 Stop eating at bad restaurants.
 Take care of yourselves and go through taking supplements that can augment our immune system
 because everybody has an immune system.
 And for the most part, most of our immune systems are working quite well.
 It was a myth that all of a sudden we don't have an immune system towards these viruses.
 Actually we do.
 We've always had immune systems against viruses every year.
 They said, oh, now it's flu season.
 Oh, it's September, October, November.
 It's flu season.
 It's no different in the past flu seasons than with the pandemic.
 It's just that it was a particular mix of strains that was most likely laboratory invented
 that made it a little different and a little bit harder.
 Okay.
 Hey, Dan, we've getting some calls in.
 You might have to take a phone call.
 That's fine.
 Yeah.
 Let's say hello to Aaron.
 Hi, Aaron.
 Welcome to the show.
 Well, that was super quick.
 It's an option for my name and put your name in.
 Timing is everything.
 Sure.
 It's a bounty and then you said Aaron.
 Yes.
 Yeah, I know.
 We noticed you called Hannah the way just as we were bringing Dr. Dan on and we had Gregory
 still on the line here.
 Did you hear Dr. Dan?
 Have you been listening to the show?
 I think so.
 Yeah.
 Same gentleman who was talking about AI and stuff, right?
 Yeah, he's on to.
 That's Gregory Panos.
 That's Greg Panos.
 Oh, that was the other.
 Okay.
 They're actually kind of coming together.
 I think the different guests I called you guys last time about this idea that the AI
 guys may be here to humble us.
 This idea I had and kind of like we don't really know what's going on.
 First, I thought when it was COVID, it would make people in AI.
 Another thing I'd mentioned to you, everybody should look into this book about noise because
 they showed that I don't know if anybody here is familiar with that besides I told it.
 No, it's not about noise per se.
 It's more from what I remember.
 It was more.
 It's a concept, well, Daniel Kahneman who just passed away, had studied bias for years.
 And then they moved on to noise, which it affects our judgment.
 It's any kind of errors in our judgments that due to different things, you know, can be
 emotion.
 Noise is the errors that we make where we don't do the truth.
 So Aaron, you maybe put it in a question and we'll let Dr. Dan and we'll let you answer.
 Today is AI has been proved to be able to kind of get rid of the noise.
 So I'm seeing potentially they found when they're studying, for instance, judges, when
 they made a caricature of them, like judges in the court system, a caricature of them
 made kind of better decisions when they were deciding cases and stuff.
 So this, so when we were talking about AI and this, even for historical purposes, making
 a watered down version of yourself or something or a better version of yourself, it's that
 actually what they're finding.
 Do you know what I mean?
 Yeah.
 Finding if you take like, yeah, the average, like the findings of a judge in all the cases
 over the years that they did is better than the judge himself or herself.
 My opinion, that's a very dangerous path because how do you know that the people programming
 aren't blind to a whole other world that has never been thought of yet, that it makes
 everything go towards one particular direction, doesn't it?
 Well, yes, that kind of the worst case.
 Maybe I'm proposing the best case scenario and it's probably going to fall somewhere
 in between.
 We can't control it to a certain.
 It's also kind of just evolution.
 So Aaron, let me see if I understand what you're talking about.
 You're talking about how when people have some sort of external view of themselves, that
 makes them have an opinion of themselves that it's like maybe influenced by that external
 view.
 So if there's an AI that's doing the recorded voice of a judge and the judge hears that
 AI, somehow the judge is going to be making better decisions because the AI has helped
 them.
 I think I'm missing something.
 No, no.
 It's just a model of that person.
 Noise, it's not being used in the sense of audio at all.
 You have to look it up.
 It's kind of the same word used.
 Yeah, I know the book.
 I know the book I have it and it's really about.
 Yeah, it just came out.
 Not too long.
 Okay, maybe, Dan, could you give me a little clue?
 I know you're showing me, but that makes no sense to me.
 It basically says that noise is a type of error in human judgment.
 Well, how do I even respond to that?
 That's nonsense.
 To me, noise is not an error in human judgment.
 Noise is something that our ears have been finely attuned over countless millennia to
 discern in our environment.
 It's a different definition.
 Well, you know, yeah, different.
 If that's, yeah, that's where it's problematic.
 It's a completely different definition.
 But you'll be hearing about it.
 No pun intended.
 It makes some noise.
 Come on.
 Well, again, to me, you guys are in the realm of like original sin.
 Like let's hypnotize ourselves to think there's something wrong with us and that we're not
 perfectly attuned for the life that we're living and that we don't have what we need
 and we somehow need someone else to give us what we need.
 No, no, no, that's not the world I'm going for.
 No, no, no.
 That's somehow, that's what I'm taking away from this ridiculous idea that noise is somehow
 an error in human judgment.
 It might not be human judgment.
 Ah.
 It might be some environmental factor like 5G or glyphosate that comes into our brain
 to make us not able to do the things that you were talking about as well.
 So that's noise.
 So it's more of a metaphor than the actual idea of sound.
 Right.
 So it's sort of in the realm of noise to signal.
 Yes.
 Signal to no state.
 Completely defined differently.
 It's a scientific thing.
 I'll just try to maybe simplify it really quickly.
 So two things that can happen is there can either be a lot of corruption of the truth
 and the actual data that happens amongst people.
 There could also be crowd wisdom that happens.
 So that's kind of the good thing that happens is when you get a bunch of ideas together,
 and this is all kind of covered in this book about noise.
 And AI is able better than us to sort through that stuff.
 That's all I'm saying.
 Right.
 It's been sort of the corruption.
 Okay.
 One thing I want to add to that is you take people like Gabber Maté who is world renowned
 for his understanding of trauma and you look at cultural trauma link, whole civilizations
 that go through trauma.
 It's liable to bias us to make wrong decisions as a culture.
 You know, I might be paranoid, but I think we're a little bit more in trouble than we
 think.
 Greg's idea of creating a virtual version of his mother will help.
 He did.
 He did.
 No, please.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Not that.
 Could help therapists and doctors to help their patients by having the family present at family
 therapy.
 But yeah, nothing like having a Jewish mother in your presence.
 I don't know about that.
 I like to say, trust the perfection and all of the voices are weighing out, adding up
 to the consequences.
 It's the symphony of beings that create our reality.
 Right.
 Pixar is getting into this now with the new Inside Out 2 that's just coming out that you're
 making decisions from a committee of some personalities.
 Uh-huh.
 Yeah.
 We're creating our Freudian understanding of it.
 Yeah, giving every emotion its own personification, sure.
 Well, that's helpful, actually.
 Yeah, exactly.
 Now, imagine if those personifications were actually virtual entities that you could actually
 hang out with.
 Yeah, that would be great.
 That'd be healthy.
 There was a lot of talk at the AR conference about virtual therapists, virtual psychiatrists
 and virtual healthcare workers and intermediaries.
 That's what comes to mind.
 Yeah.
 A lot of things that they've classified as necessary and easy to do that don't require
 a human on the line that can be handled by an AI, a human-like AI, and then a database
 of all the specific types of issues that people require solving.
 So do you feel like there's a bias in the VR world to do things without humans?
 Like the idea that we'd rather talk to a virtual therapist than a real life.
 No, no, it's not.
 Human beings.
 It's just-
 Rather, I think that people want action and they don't want to spend a lot of time confused
 with uncertainty that whether it's an Autobot or a person, they want the problem solved.
 And if it turns out the Autobot is a quick and easy and reliable way to solve a problem,
 then they'll call the Autobot every time.
 But if it's throwing a lever on the slot machine and you don't know who you're going
 to get, whether they're going to have a foreign accent that it would be hard for you to understand
 or they're going to be in another country and they don't have access to all the information.
 These automated systems can be created with a lot more verifiable digital trust for information.
 Yeah.
 How are you going to handle the liability of what that AI thing tells the person to do?
 Well, you document it just like everything else.
 When you call someone, they say that Paul is being recorded for quality assurance, that
 leaves a record for that specific interaction.
 And so the liability will be tied to specific things that happen that caused some situation
 where there was a liability.
 And that documentation sounds so cray-cray to me.
 Like what is it about this need that you have to have like step-furred wife versions
 of real people?
 No, no, well, let's say we keep going from step-furred wives to husbands too.
 I think you should do your dad too, Craig.
 You know, just to be fair here.
 When you call the authorizer credit card, you get into credit card and you call the number
 authorizer, would you rather wait a half hour to talk to a person and then read them the
 numbers to have them authorize it?
 Would you rather go through a phone tree with voices that takes you one minute or two
 minutes?
 No.
 Yeah.
 But your psyche is not a credit card.
 No.
 No, but when it comes to your psyche, in many cases, what you know, what step therapy is
 where they won't give you a particular drug that you think that you want until you try
 three or four other drugs, okay?
 With a psych therapy that's automated, it can determine the level of how much human needs
 come on the line and actually make decisions.
 So you may just call and say, "I'm calling in for my Wednesday appointment and I've had
 a pretty good week and everything's been really nice and I'm not really having any
 trouble."
 And be like, "Oh, great.
 Thank you.
 All right.
 Well, bye-bye."
 And it makes a record of the call.
 But if you call in your panic and you've been thinking about suicide and everything else,
 then it will get more concerned that a human will come online and you actually talk to
 a human.
 All right.
 Let's change the subject.
 I think Al has a few more things he wants to introduce to our consciousness today.
 Well, this involves both of you guys, actually.
 There was in the news this week in neurosciences that the first child brain implant for epilepsy
 appears successful.
 Brain implants as being one of the answers to this whole virtual XR reality thing is
 where why don't we go directly to brain implants?
 Yeah.
 All you guys who want to have your buddies be programmable instead of unpredictable.
 But this device is rechargeable, attaches to the skull.
 It's not a full VR thing at all, but it's more of an electrical stimulator for the brain.
 And it's been very successful in dealing with epilepsy all the way down to kids.
 Cesar reduction, small design.
 Researchers have been dramatically reduced in frequency and severity thanks to the device.
 The kid was 12 years old.
 Well, that's great when it starts out in a positive way like that.
 But you have to also just like the new atomic bomb, you have to see both sides of how it
 can be negatively used.
 Well, there's always cautionary tales, but is that the reason why we shouldn't do it?
 It could be.
 It could be like a nuclear bombs.
 Yes.
 Brain implants are like nuclear bombs.
 You would go that far?
 Yeah.
 Are you great?
 Is that it significant to you?
 Oh, I wouldn't.
 I wouldn't equate these with nuclear bombs.
 The exposure of nuclear bomb is collective decision that only a few people would make.
 In this case, we're talking about a whole different chain of custody of decision making
 that is a little bit closer invested in the individual.
 Yeah.
 So what happens when Kim Jong-il, when Kim Jong-il puts brain implants?
 And then he puts brain implants into his armies.
 Well, then we hacked the brain implants.
 Yeah, good thing.
 Lucky Palmer is working on automated robots because he'll probably know how to disarm
 them.
 Andril will know all how to do this.
 The famous line from the Star Trek movie is the more you try to overtake the plumbing,
 the easier it is to stop up the drain.
 Mm-hmm.
 Yeah.
 So the more you design something elaborate, the easier it is to find a single fault somewhere
 in that whole chain.
 Yes.
 All right.
 So this is future.
 We're getting close to the end of the show.
 How about you?
 Before we go, change the topic.
 As the lone female in the sea of our testosterone fantasies.
 With brain implants.
 Lay the julienne asanjo audio.
 Oh, yeah.
 You're ready?
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 I will give my spot to the AI because it's something that we...
 No, no, wait a minute.
 How long do we have?
 Three minutes.
 Yeah, we get it three minutes.
 All right.
 And 30 seconds for your...
 So...
 Brain implant.
 Brain implant comment for Mrs. Future is that we will, as human, divine creative beings,
 get what we want.
 We will get what we intend.
 We will use the vast intelligence of our aggregate mind to solve the problems that need
 to be solved to bring us what we're after.
 The future is going to be full of what we wish for.
 So be careful what you wish for because we're going to get it and wish for something
 wonderful.
 Okay.
 Wonderful brain implants.
 Thank you for having me, guys.
 Yeah.
 Thank you.
 One thing before you go down, you're going to appreciate this.
 We're using the You2Go app to create a song about Julian Assange.
 During the show, we have the AI get creative for us.
 Okay, Greg, I'm just going to show you how you can do a song on the spot.
 Go ahead.
 About the...
 Julian's truth.
 Okay.
 Okay.
 ♪ In the shadows he revealed the lies ♪
 ♪ Julian Assange with the world's eyes ♪
 ♪ Makes the right way ♪
 ♪ Makes the right way ♪
 ♪ A digital fight for the silence ♪
 ♪ He brought to light ♪
 ♪ Oh, Julian, in the cyber night ♪
 ♪ You showed the world what side of sight ♪
 ♪ Bound and change but your spirit flies ♪
 ♪ For freedoms cause your legacy cries ♪
 ♪ Ta-da, ta-da, ta-da, ta-da ♪
 ♪ How bad it was, your incarceration ♪
 ♪ Blame our fears, our anger and frustration ♪
 ♪ Ta-da, ta-da, ta-da, ta-da ♪
 Okay.
 ♪ Ta-da, ta-da, ta-da ♪
 ♪ Julian, the world is so sorry for you ♪
 Yeah, we hear it.
 ♪ To be judged for laws we pursue ♪
 Okay, I think we have it.
 Thanks, everybody.
 Hope you enjoyed the show.
 Yeah.
 Huge now.
 Leaks of truth, a digital fight for the silence.
 He brought you the light.
 Bye.
 Bye, Dr. Dan.
 Bye, Greg.
 Bye-bye.
 Thanks for being part of the show today.
 ♪ It's at me, friend ♪
 Thank you everyone, bye-bye.
 Bye-bye.
 (upbeat music)
 ♪ You're tired in this carland ♪