73_FutureNowShow_Katrina_interview.txt

 "We are back, yes)
 This is Allan Lundell, aka doctor future, and Mrs. Future at the controls, our sunny bunny, I like to call her.
 And Bobby Wilder in San Francisco, our size correspondent, Bobby, welcome back to the show.
 Yeah, I'm glad to be here with you.
 Yes, and everybody.
 Yes, and we have Katrina, Katrina Valencourt on the line, and her husband Steven.
 I'm not sure what Steven's last name is.
 Gileary.
 Gileary, Steven, welcome, welcome Steven and Katrina to the show.
 No, we have known Katrina for many years, probably 20 years, at least.
 And we've mostly known you as a love coach, a workshop leader, a mediator, trained in non-violent communications, and working with spiritual, transformational studies and people for all this time.
 Yeah, you're a total love being.
 Yeah, and one of the best huggers in the universe.
 And your mother.
 And a wonderful dancer and a wonderful mother and a lovely friend.
 We're a little biased to just knowing how wonderful you are.
 And I have to say that your book, which I haven't had a chance to read all the way to the end, but just the amount that I've read so far is beautiful.
 It's so engaging and so empathetic.
 It just creates an opportunity for people to go really deep with what's happening both in the misinformation world and spiritually in our time.
 Recovery, how I tumbled down the QAnon rabbit hole and climbed out.
 Now, and recovery with a cue.
 And it's by you and Laurie Masters, I guess is your co-writer.
 Well, it was my editor.
 Amazing, amazing editor.
 Couldn't have asked for a better partner.
 Ah, okay.
 Let's go.
 And I'm glad you're here to represent both you and her in this book.
 But it is your process that we went through here.
 Now, here we are.
 You're a professional, many ways therapist and coach and training and.
 Yes.
 And you were doing pretty well.
 I thought it's interesting to be clear.
 I'm a non-violent communication trainer and facilitator and I do mediation work as well, but I'm not a licensed therapist.
 Okay.
 All right.
 So, nonetheless, you're very sensitive, emotionally attuned being.
 Definitely.
 And seem to be doing pretty well.
 You're about to get married.
 You had a fiance, Steven, at the time.
 When you came across this series of videos that were about the QAnon process that ends up changing your life.
 Could you tell our audience a little bit about what happened that fateful night when your world turned upside down?
 Sure.
 I was born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin.
 When I moved to Santa Cruz, I was there for 10 years before moving up to the Bay Area.
 So, I have been in Democratic progressive strongholds all my life.
 Bernie, you were a big Bernie supporter.
 Yes.
 Very, very passionate Bernie supporter.
 You could not know that about me.
 Right.
 My entire surroundings were from the Democrat progressive narrative, my entire adult life.
 I really did not know any Republicans or conservatives.
 And when I came across them, I had immediate bias about who they were.
 At the time, the day before I watched this infamous video series, I could not see an image of Trump or hear his voice without feeling nausea and anger.
 Some of it represented in part one of my book.
 There is a conversation you will see between myself and Tanya that is actually pretty close to word for word.
 I am going to pull off of a Facebook messenger thread that we had shared.
 So, I just want to make it really clear that stepping into this, I thought, I would be one of the last people you would suspect would ever have an overnight flip and support Trump the very next day.
 From Bernie to Trump, that is quite a transition.
 Yes.
 It was quite a transition for me and at least as much of a transition for Stephen, June of 2020 was a highly stressful time for most people on the planet.
 I think the people who did well were people who were financially stable introverts and they just got to enjoy being at home.
 But I am very enerctiver and there were a number of stressors, again in part one of my books, that accumulated.
 So, when I press play on this video series at 11 o'clock at night, where I was just shaking in stress and couldn't sleep and that is very unusual for me, I was not in the most grounded state of mind.
 I also had never heard of QAnon before.
 Really?
 Not at that point, June 2020, it was starting to come out but I just didn't pay attention.
 And this particular video series turns out to have been one of the most successful series for flipping people into QAnon, especially the track that I flipped into, there was a, I think it was Concordia University.
 Yes, there is a Concordia University researcher who coined this particular track of QAnon pastel Q.
 Pastel Q, that's a search algorithms, yeah.
 Yeah, pastel Q. It emphasizes child protection, it appeals to maternal instincts and it promotes natural health and spirituality.
 So, the mothers, these are the natural health practitioners, they're the ones who try and go to a naturopath and to the organic food store and the co-op and try and avoid Western medicine as much as possible because we want to believe that our natural health is supported by our food.
 So, it's tuned into that belief system, right?
 It's like, and then giving you information that you would consider seriously because that is your sensibilities.
 Yes, I mean, there's so much more to it than that but I just want to make it just because what I discovered after coming out of QAnon, I didn't see it while I was in it, is that there are so many people who have been taught that if you are a QAnon or if you support Trump, you must be a racist, fascist, anti-Semite, transphobe, homophobe, delusional.
 There's just a list of terms that get thrown at people who support Trump or fell into QAnon.
 Yes, it's very polarizing.
 Very polarizing.
 I just didn't see any of that stuff when I was in it.
 What I saw, there are children who are being profoundly abused, taken from their parents, profoundly abused to a degree that's completely dark and sinister and there's an evil cabal that is trying to depopulate the planet.
 I also came in at a time that QAnon and the COVID narrative were merging.
 As I was not trusting what the media was telling us about COVID, I had that happening at the same general time as I fell into QAnon.
 It was easy for me and others to put together this idea that the dark and evil satanic cabal that is spoken about in the QAnon lore is also the same group of people who are trying to depopulate the planet through a poorly tested vaccine.
 Of course, we've seen a lot of stories around that.
 Oh, yes, well, the facts, of course.
 Yes, that's a huge controversy.
 Yes.
 There's plenty of people who don't trust that the vaccine and the mandates were the best thing to do, but they don't believe in QAnon either.
 They are distinct arguments.
 I think it's very important to pull those apart because we can't really effectively look at how to support people who have gotten caught up in the QAnon theories if we're going to map those on as if they're the same thing.
 I remember that the origins of the QAnon, where did they come from?
 Have you seen the anti-social network? Have you seen how that evolved?
 I did.
 Yes.
 Thank you.
 The anti-social network shows the board kind of what happened on the 4chan and 8chan boards where these Qdrops were posted.
 We also know that the digital activist group, Anonymous, came from these boards.
 I guess that's the Anon part of the Q.
 Certainly, when I saw that talking, the digital activist Anonymous were a small group of people who participated on these boards.
 It's not like everyone on the board was part of Anonymous.
 Right.
 The same thing here, people who are on the board might like to call themselves Anons.
 Maybe some of them have higher training than others, but we really don't know who the Anons are.
 All we know is that they seem to have interacted on these messaging boards.
 Was it that first sucked you in? Was it a particular retelling of a story like 9/11 or the vaccines?
 It was a number of things that came together. That video is three hours and it's densely packed with all kinds of information.
 It wove together every conspiracy theory I've ever heard of and then added a whole bunch more to the table.
 There were some things I was familiar with. I just hadn't really spent much time or attention on them,
 but they're familiar with things like 9/11 or chemtrails, which are also called geoengineering aerosols.
 I was familiar with these things, but I wasn't familiar with some of the other pieces that QAnon brought in.
 Again, kind of the dark, the satanic, the abusive children aspect.
 The video uses hypnotic techniques and sensationalism.
 Also, this woman Janet who created the video, she says, "Don't take my word for it."
 She said, "Everything is really messed up in the world and it's worse than you could possibly imagine, but there's really good news."
 That's the setup for the series.
 The Savior has arrived.
 What's that?
 The Savior has arrived.
 Yeah.
 She also says, "That's where it goes."
 I'm going to show you all of these things, but don't take my word for it. Do your own research.
 Sure.
 Watching this video and there's things I'm familiar with, there's also some that I am not familiar with.
 There's things that are new and it builds up from, you know, starts with California fires, which were traumatic enough.
 But over the course of seven videos, it builds up into material that is so devastating, again, having to do with children that I was sobbing.
 It's emotionally, I felt like I broke when that information came through.
 At that point, I needed a solution.
 It's like, "Oh my goodness, if this is true, I'm going to do my research and check it out."
 But if this is true, it's so dark. It's so bad. It has to stop. There has to be a solution.
 Are you talking about all the pedo stuff, like the adrenochrome and all those stories?
 All of that dark stuff.
 Uh-huh.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 It showed some photos and some videos to build that case.
 It's difficult for me to even talk about it. I don't want my mind to go there because it's so dark.
 Sure, yeah.
 Yeah.
 And then the news is that Q, this deep state insider, is working with a whole team of good guys inside our government, and they're going to expose the cabal in the deep state and bring them to justice.
 And they'll all be put in Guantanamo Bay.
 That's the thing that if people are familiar with the Q and on the Lord, that would be the storm.
 Well, that's similar to a lot of the Trump rhetoric for the first term, too.
 Like the drain the swamp and all that.
 Yeah, definitely.
 Yes.
 I think I remember seeing images of Trump around that time wearing Superman outfit, and he's going to save us all from the deep state.
 I don't know if I saw those, but I've seen other people create memes of him as Superman or him as Jesus.
 He's certainly played on that second coming of Christ.
 Uh-huh.
 But he's not the Q guy, though.
 He's not Q.
 Q is that?
 Yeah.
 The question here is that you say you went through this switch overnight, and it was the night that the Democratic Convention selected Biden instead of Bernie.
 And what is it that suddenly, what was your attitude towards Trump after that in your moment?
 And was that created by these videos?
 I don't remember the Democratic National Convention.
 I remember Bernie endorsing Biden in April.
 And for me, that was a horrible moment.
 I lost hope because I didn't trust that Biden was going to do what needed to be done to turn our country around.
 I loved what I had heard from Bernie.
 So that wasn't the moment.
 No.
 What that did, though, is it did set up a narrative that Bernie just kept talking about how the power gap, the wealth gap, was huge.
 And pointing to money and power, the accumulation of money and power among this elite class as being the major problem that we have to solve.
 And the key one on Laura is very similar to that.
 It just says that there are people among the elite, the top of the pyramid, for whom wealth and power is not enough.
 They want complete control of all humans on the planet.
 They're looking to enslave the planet and basically treat a world that works for them and no one else.
 Jesus began to sound very metaphysical here.
 So besides that you were exposed to this, I'm just curious, is like what is it that caused you to take it in?
 Why did it seem so believable to you all of a sudden?
 I wanted something to hold on to for hope.
 I wanted something to believe in again because I had lost hope in our political system.
 So that was there, but beyond that, this idea of do your own research.
 I watched this entire video and then I was like, okay, well, let me debunk everything I can debunk first.
 And so I looked for the most bizarre and disturbing points of information from the video.
 And the pizza parlor stuff.
 Yeah, well, a little bit.
 I looked into the wiki leaks.
 What were the emails between Clinton and Podesta?
 Does Podesta actually have a bronze beheaded statue of a Jeffrey Dahmer victim in his house?
 Does he own this bizarre art collection?
 Was Lady Gaga at some spirit cooking dinner where she's drinking something that looks like blood?
 Pages and pages and pages of evidence saying, yes, this is true.
 What I didn't know was that by June of 2020, QAnon had been around for over two years.
 It started in October of 2017.
 And so people, they had created websites and put up all of this information.
 You could look into any of this on a Google search in June of 2020.
 Again, it was pages and pages of evidence.
 And so when I saw that, I didn't look at the quality of evidence.
 I was like, oh, my God, with this many websites saying the same thing, this must be true.
 So the emotionality of it really got you, though.
 Definitely huge emotion.
 And so that both began to cement my new belief system, but it also created Google has these AI algorithms.
 It checks and sees what it is you're interested in, Facebook, YouTube, all these social media platforms have these AI algorithms that are designed to maximize user attention.
 So when I began to search for these really bizarre and dark things, it went, oh, we know what you like to watch.
 Here's some more.
 I've gone into an AI built echo chamber that was confirming my new bias.
 And so every single day, I was fed news, I was fed videos, I was fed these sensationalist, human-on related content, all of my social media feeds.
 So it was really just the Google bias and the fact that Google was finding a lot of the information and it was uncensored that was contributing to your belief that it was credible.
 That was a huge part of it. I can't go back and look at all of those to see what is credible and what is not.
 And I can tell you, Lady Gaga drinking blood out of this, that image is real.
 What I didn't know is it was an art benefit.
 It's a really kind of, in my mind, dark and strange art.
 But it looks like a dead woman in a tub of blood.
 And you see Lady Gaga and a couple other famous people with their spoons that actually exist.
 But then it gets twisted.
 Yeah, the context. It was shifted.
 Part of the Satanic Fall.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 I'm curious then, we've sort of established that there was a lot of hooks to get you in and that you really entered Hookline and Sinker.
 Now, what was the darkest moment that indicated that there was a crisis?
 When did you know you needed to re-examine where your gullibility had brought you?
 Goodness, there's so many points along the way that supported that narrative to break down.
 But I would say it was really right at the end.
 Between late October and early December, there were a series of moments that just started to break down my mind's commitment to believing this narrative.
 And by mid-December, I was spinning in fear and anxiety.
 I had so many impressions made on my mind of very dark imagery, very dark supposed reveals about the cabal.
 And many stories of all the things that could go wrong.
 We're going to have a financial collapse and we're going to have a climate collapse.
 China's going to take over.
 There were just so many stories of inevitable disaster that I had soaked into my mind.
 But I was really spinning in fear and anxiety and that made it nearly impossible for me to be present in my day-to-day life.
 Stephen was wearing thin.
 What I didn't know, of course, I was up all night watching this film.
 The next morning I'm a Trump supporter.
 I'm acting weird. I'm not talking to him. That's the beginning of this month, Jeremy.
 Stephen, you better watch this.
 I did. I told him to watch it.
 Yeah, after about a week.
 Did you watch it?
 Yeah, I did.
 And it was no incatrina.
 It hit home as to why it grabbed her.
 It was very effective at setting up a problem case.
 And then you bought that and then delivering a solution.
 I could see her breathing a sigh of relief.
 Oh, somebody's going to fix this.
 And in my opinion, that's what grabbed her.
 There was a savior that was going to actually make things right.
 Yeah.
 Who are you going to call?
 Yeah.
 Listen, you guys, we're going to have to take a short little break for our station.
 And then in two minutes, we're going to come back and keep discussing this amazing experience
 that you had.
 Yes.
 I like to answer the question, who is Q after the break?
 I'll do that for a couple minutes.
 Okay.
 All right.
 Be right back.
 Good luck.
 All right.
 Thanks.
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 Welcome back to the show everybody.
 We're done with Katrina Vellancourt and her husband Steven Gileary.
 Gileary, thank you.
 About the QAnon phenomenon and a book Katrina has written about her fall into the Q hole
 and back out again.
 You call it a rabbit hole, right?
 No.
 It's the uninitiated.
 Can you explain why it's a rabbit hole?
 You know, that just seems to be what's going around when you fall deep into something and
 your mind just gets consumed with it.
 It's being called a rabbit hole.
 So oftentimes conspiracy theories where somebody's like, whoa, I have to learn about this.
 It's considered a rabbit hole.
 Although now people are also saying I'm getting big into the permaculture rabbit hole.
 So really just a way of saying my mind got consumed by something.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 And also people are throwing around the term silos lately a lot.
 You hear that?
 Yes.
 Information silos, these online media algorithms that continue to confirm your bias.
 Whatever you believe, whatever you search for, you will be given information that says
 you're right.
 And the challenges we all have are unique information silos that the AI algorithms have
 designed for each of us.
 And we're living in these disparate realities and having a hard time communicating with
 each other in a world of chaotic news.
 Yes.
 It's getting more and more so too.
 Yes.
 That's a big time.
 I assume that the pastel track is that that's similar to that idea that the algorithms of
 the search engines will send you more of what you are looking for based on who you are
 and what you just did.
 But given that, did you try other search engines?
 Did you try going to duck duck go?
 Sure.
 And at the time, there was so much populated online in support of the QAnon narrative that
 it didn't matter what search engine I used.
 Any social media platform, anywhere I went, if I searched for things related to QAnon,
 I got plenty of it.
 Now in your book, you said you tried talking to your friends about it and that didn't always
 work out well.
 What happened there?
 You didn't have friends that you couldn't.
 Right.
 Go ahead.
 My stations with my friends were primarily on text messaging and Facebook, which is part
 of the reason I've been able to weave so much of those exact dialogues into the book.
 Generally speaking, it did not go well.
 I got a lot of pushback.
 I had some people name calling me, which was a surprise, and I had people blocking me.
 So socially, it was very painful.
 And in the first 24 hours, I found at least 12 other people who clearly also had seen
 what I had seen in terms of the QAnon narrative and also believed it.
 That also was part of what anchored it for me.
 It was like, okay, we're some of the early people who have seen what's really going on.
 And there's something in that that feels thrilling.
 It was for me to think of myself as special for having seen something that other people
 just weren't awake to yet.
 So I think in other things I would say, and this might sound strange, but after I watched
 that video series, before I was in this intense stress and fear, Bernie's not going to save
 the day.
 What do we have left?
 And COVID was crazy.
 What's going on on top of all of our other crises happening in the world?
 And when I watched this video, there was some mechanism that happened in my mind where when
 I believed the narrative, my fear disappeared.
 And I felt imbued with love.
 I felt present.
 I felt elated.
 I felt tremendous gratitude.
 My emotional state was night and day different when I first became a QAnon.
 And that initial sense of elation lasted for the first maybe six to eight weeks before
 it started to go dark again was what I hardly had any friends or family who are willing to
 understand what I perceive to be was the good news.
 So do you maintain new communications with your new friends and drop conversations with
 those you couldn't talk about these things?
 I would like to gravitate towards the people who agree with you.
 Yeah.
 Interesting.
 Fashion is the key for what you're going through.
 Tell me what I'm asking.
 Were these friends like people that you could actually hang out with and meet in person or
 is it all online relationships?
 This is 2020.
 We were still in lockdown.
 So everything was online.
 We went to Sedona for a few months and Sedona was not on the same kind of lockdown.
 Their businesses were still open.
 They were still outdoor dancing almost every single day.
 People were hugging each other and hanging out.
 It was honestly quite relieving in contrast to the California experience.
 So I was able to hang out with some people who clearly believed something closer to what
 I did when we were in Arizona, which was relieving for me and stressful for Steven.
 Yeah, what did it do to your relationship with Steven?
 You guys were just falling in love then and Beyonce's and all that.
 What happened?
 I mean, Ili brought us to our edge.
 I think it's a miracle that Steven stayed with me through that time.
 Did he provide you an alternative point of view of what was going on during this whole
 time?
 You're talking to somebody who's fallen into QAnon, a rational conversation to try and
 talk you into a different point of view.
 Yeah.
 It does not work whatsoever.
 It's a very exact fire.
 I think anybody who's been in a relationship with somebody who's fallen to QAnon can say
 that.
 They hate it because they really want rational thinking to save the day, but it's emotional.
 If you try and use a rational argument, the person usually pushes you away and goes deeper
 down the rabbit hole.
 Do you have any particular examples?
 Yeah.
 Steven?
 I was going to say early on when the first couple of weeks for making the flip, I was
 trying to come to grips with who she was now because literally she changed overnight.
 Her energy state was completely different.
 It was quite a bit of just trying to get my own feet under me.
 I was seeking a lot of advice and counsel from people that were ultimately very helpful,
 including her father and her son, as well as my therapist.
 I reached out to a couple of psychologists and various other places to try to get input.
 They gave me some wonderful advice, which I followed.
 Ultimately, I gave myself about six months to figure it out.
 That was to watch to see if Katrina would come back to being who she was or if she didn't,
 whether we could still find a place to be happy together with her having one set of beliefs
 and me and other.
 Thankfully, she came through, I think in month five, she was clear that she was clear
 that she was coming back to being her former self.
 I'm trying to come out, but it's not.
 Was there a particular event or a person or a moment where you started to turn or was
 it a dis?
 Yeah, did it stop holding water for some reason?
 You seen other documentary with a different point of the world?
 It was really a combination of things.
 It's part of the reason I wrote a book.
 That's the question people most want to know and understand.
 I can give a short answer, but it doesn't do it justice.
 Part four in the book is really all of the steps along the way that started to break
 down the narrative.
 The book leading up to that gives you context for part four and why it was so hard and why
 it was gripping so much.
 Part five is the recovery.
 You had asked earlier was there a particular dark moment close to that end of the six months.
 As I said, I was spinning and fearing anxiety.
 I couldn't be present and I remember Stephen turning to me and said if you keep going like
 this, it will destroy you and it will destroy us.
 I had also had conversations with my dad and I was recognizing that I was in this perpetual
 state of fear and anxiety and I could feel that it was destroying my quality of life.
 I imagined to my since Stephen shoes, I wouldn't want to be around somebody who was like that
 all the time.
 That was the wake up call.
 How do you recover once you face the fact that it's a lie?
 Yeah, that's a big thing and a lot of people don't recover or some people get out of Qon
 and never want to talk about it.
 They leave it in the closet and uncross this material.
 That's part five of the book.
 How do you recover?
 Yeah, I think there's important elements to that for people who are around somebody who's
 gone into the rabbit hole and that is making it safe for them to come back out.
 So many people do a lot of damage to their relationships and they get pushed away, but
 they find a warm embrace in their QAnon community and in order for you to entice them back,
 it can't be combative.
 It has to be love based.
 It has to be welcoming.
 It has to be forgiving and you have to give them a warm place to land and let them know
 that it's okay.
 That's not easy for a lot of people, but it's critical.
 It's so good.
 I'm curious that having gone through a total belief conversion and then recovery, your
 state of holding on to the various beliefs now, like do you have a smorgasbord?
 Some of what you believed is true and some of it isn't or have you just dismissed it
 all as secondhand stories and you just don't know or is this reality just really messed?
 Is there something that you now cling to with strong fervent belief?
 I cling to the strong fervent belief that love is the answer to every problem.
 That's a really big question.
 I have done my best to answer in the book and a part of it was just recognizing that trying
 to sort it all out was part of what was driving my fear and anxiety.
 I had a huge amount of just saying, "I don't know, that's okay," and learning to live
 with uncertainty.
 Having said that there are some things I still believe and there's other things I don't,
 but to try and sort that out is just seems stressful.
 Yeah, I guess from my perspective, what I think I've observed is conspiracy theories
 attract people because there's a kernel of truth at the center of it and then a lot of
 stuff gets piled around the outside that creates the conspiracy aspect.
 Take child sex trafficking as an example, clearly happening in our world.
 Clearly it's a disgusting problem.
 The QAnon narrative took it to extremes and made it a us versus them type of dynamic and
 the man who had it go to was people like Benfry and the Dalai Lama and the Pope and Barack
 Obama and go on and on and on.
 They were all pedophiles and blah, blah, blah in that narrative.
 Recognizing that there was a kernel of truth to all of these things or the potential for
 a kernel of truth.
 It's part of the sense-making process.
 Yeah, it's part of the sense-making process exactly.
 I think one of the things that was instrumental for Katrina was a while in it coming was getting
 heard of, really just try to focus on what's immediately in front of us.
 What can we touch and see and feel and hear and taste?
 Let's focus on those things and all this other stuff in the outside world, it could
 have been educated about it.
 I had to pull away from it completely for about a year.
 I took all of my social media offline.
 I didn't engage in the news.
 If there was a news conversation happening around me, I asked to change the conversation
 or I left the room.
 I had so many impressions on my mind that was very easy to stimulate any of these dark
 impressions.
 I needed to put other contents in my mind so that those darker impressions would not
 be in the forefront.
 That was part of taking care of my mental and emotional health.
 I'm curious though.
 I know each of you have gone reading the book and I'm so curious what's your take on it
 so far?
 I love your writing.
 I think you are a powerful engaging writer and the way that you are bringing the story
 together with the present tense, the way that it's unfolding in real time so that you are
 very much feeling like, "Wait a minute.
 Are you sure about that?"
 The voice is something that is very well...
 I feel like it's a book of hope that it's helping us to stay sane in a crazy world.
 We're in a point in time now, I mentioned this yesterday before we began here, that one
 of our issues that we discussed is how information is so easily faked these days.
 It's getting to the point where we could clone voices easily and create whatever we want.
 It makes it even harder to know what's what.
 What you're going through is something that many, many will be facing as this information
 insanity continues to evolve.
 What do we do about it?
 That is the question that you're approaching and of course is so ripe for the times here
 because our country is so much in a crisis because of the people not knowing who to believe,
 what to believe the past is not what we thought it was.
 The current is hard to assess and how can we engage in a positive creation of the future.
 When people have embraced being so negative, I do think that your process is something
 that contributes to the hope that we can make steps in the direction of solving these problems.
 I only read the first two chapters, actually to chapter 9 about JFK Jr. but I couldn't
 stop and I had to go to sleep and I wish I had started this a couple of nights before
 because I was totally in the rap because I was a Bernie supporter too.
 Then I was following the same sequences of events like you were and being in lockdown
 and then listening to my friends who were telling me about QAnon and what was going
 on in the pedophiles and satanic rituals and stuff.
 I was consumed by that too.
 I can't wait to finish reading the rest of the book.
 It's beautiful.
 It's very succinct and your eloquence of words and the way it's described.
 You actually have retrospective time, a look at politically what was going on and you can
 go back and forth in time in the book.
 It's great.
 It's fantastic and I think everybody should read this book.
 It's really incredible.
 I just want to know, yeah, I can't wait to get to the end to figure out what is the answer
 to all this.
 Who is Q, man?
 Did you figure that out?
 Did you get to the bottom of the book?
 Yeah.
 I was able to get to the answer to all of this for myself personally in my relationship
 with my husband, my family, my community.
 There's a larger question.
 We have societal impact and we have political impact and we do have runaway AI and unfortunately
 we also have industries such as the military industrial complex that is wanting to hone
 their skill in AI with a zero sum game as their...
 Yeah, proportionally.
 They're narratives.
 Yeah, so those questions, who is Q?
 I really appreciated Vice Media did a series where they tried to find out who Q was.
 They didn't actually figure it out.
 It appears that Michael Flynn could have been one of the influencers supporting the Q drops.
 It appears it was a small group of people.
 It started out as a live action role play kind of game on, again, the 4chan-8chan board
 that used that model of we're going to send you clues and you put together the pieces.
 However, usually in a live action role play, there's a goal to the game.
 And here, I don't...
 I think initially the goal was to get trumpled up to it.
 Certainly the direction it went later on, but the way this live action role play was designed,
 people could pick up the clues and make any meaning they wanted.
 We have a psychological tendency as human beings for apophania.
 And apophania is the tendency, human tendency to put together pieces and make meaning where
 there's no inherent meaning.
 So there's Q in the Q drops and you can find those online and then there's Q in on.
 And I would almost call them different things because what Q and on has become, it's really
 hard to actually find roots in the Q drops.
 Yeah, yeah, that was really interesting for me as I was reading the book.
 I wanted to get really clear on as much as I could.
 Going back to Vice Media, so Michael Flynn, he's kind of a poster child for Q, but we
 don't have an answer and nobody has ever figured out for sure who Q is.
 I think that Q has not posted since the 2022 midterms, which is also interesting.
 And of course, it was, you know, Republicans have to win.
 We're basically the nature of those posts.
 But that's as much as I can tell you about those origins.
 Are you familiar with the Illuminati stories or Illuminati trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson?
 I'm not.
 Yeah.
 The idea that there's always been a cabal that's running everything.
 There's a handful of people.
 It goes way back and there are a lot of stories about who these people might be.
 The puppet masters.
 I wish we could all know for certain what is causing the real problems of the world.
 I did have a wonderful conversation with Danny Shehan, a mutual friend of ours.
 Yes.
 And Danny is a federal civil rights attorney and so she's very good at things with objective
 facts.
 You know, when it comes to the deep state, some people say this is conspiracy theory.
 He points to the security active of 1947 and the actual creation of a group of people
 within our government who built the CIA and the national security state.
 Yeah.
 And so when I spoke with him and I just asked him, like he said, it's important for us to
 actually look at what was real in QAnon and separate that from what was not real.
 Yeah.
 I don't have to do that, but you could do that Danny.
 So he talked about how there is a deep state and one of the challenges is that that deep
 state can take QAnon and it can say, look at all of this gobbledygook.
 There's nothing in it that's true.
 There's no deep state and cause the people to turn a blind eye to what has become a problem
 in our government.
 Dwight Eisenhower in his final speech to Americans talked about the dangerous rise of the military
 industrial complex.
 My understanding and it could be off, but I'm still learning, is that that is basically
 what Dwight Eisenhower was talking about is this national security state.
 Is these dark operatives who are playing a zero sum game and forcing other countries
 to do the same in return?
 He said that needs to be dismantled and the other thing that needs to be dismantled is
 the corporate law that creates indemnity for corporations, that it creates the sociopathic
 tendency.
 So whether those things have roots in a cabal or not, I don't know.
 I would love for us to be able to come to objective truths so that we could deeply understand
 what is creating the suffering on earth in society and for the planet.
 With that knowledge, we would be able to make effective choices to create the world that
 we all want, where we've got a healthy planet, we have safety for all beings, we can celebrate
 diversity and choose where we feel the sense of belonging.
 I know that's what we all want.
 It's interesting because some would say it's an evolution beyond being nationalistic or
 race oriented and seeing the species as a whole and then going from there.
 That's a challenge because we're so nationalistic at this point in the time and we've given bad
 name to being a globalist.
 Globalist is considered bad now.
 But thinking globally is what brought us initially the United Nations and the League
 of Nations.
 Well, the only way that we can all become globalists is if the globalist agreements start with
 the freedom of the individual.
 And if free individuals are empowered to align their agreements and empower the governments
 and the institutions above them, then we can have a global government.
 But if we have globalists that are trying to disenfranchise the individuals and centralize
 the power and turn the people into slaves, then of course we can't have global unity.
 So we have to have something that unites people freely of their own choice and will, not something
 that is imposed upon them.
 Maybe it.
 From the more powerful to the less powerful.
 And the general thought about the third attractor and what you're talking about aligns with
 that idea of the third attractor where there's shared power and there's a governance that
 actually serves life.
 Which is the beautiful dream of America that we are free people, sovereigns without subjects
 who are free to practice our worship of the divine in our own way without being interfered
 with by others.
 So that individuals can practice their natural born rights under God freely.
 I guess seeing others is divine too, I guess is the challenge.
 Yeah, that's definitely the noble aspect of it.
 What it really means to be human.
 Yeah.
 Well, I don't know for wrapping up right now.
 I think we've got about two or three minutes.
 How do we get your book?
 Then tell us about where we can find it.
 Actually we only have one minute, so make it quick.
 Yeah, so you can find the book at recoverybook.com.
 Again, recovery spelled with a Q. It's also available on Amazon now.
 I'm getting incredible feedback from people who are reading it.
 They're telling me it's engaging, it's hard to put down, it's very well researched, it's
 giving them insights and a level of compassion that they didn't know they could find when
 looking into this topic.
 Thank you everybody.
 Have a great future now.
 This has been a great show.
 Thank you so much Katrina.
 Thank you so much Steven.
 Yes, thank you.
 Bobby, everybody.
 We're going to say goodbye now because the next show is going to start in five minutes.
 We'll talk more soon.
 Okay.
 Thanks again.
 Let's love guys.
 Bye bye.
 Have a great future now everybody.
 Great week too.
 Bye bye.
 Bye bye.
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