70 Future Now Podcast - Kidneys in Space, Harvard Advanced Reptilians Theory, Michele Newman and Singing your Soul with Whales, SETI approach for probing  advanced AIs, which came first, Fun or Love?  

 What time is it?
 (bell ringing)
 (upbeat music)

 ♪ The future is coming on ♪
 ♪ It's coming on ♪
 ♪ It's coming on ♪
 ♪ It's coming on ♪
 And here we are coming on from Boulder Creek, California
 with myself and Mrs. Future, aka Sun.
 - Howdy.
 - And Bobby just joined us in from San Francisco.
 Hey, Bobby.
 - Bobby, hailing frequencies are open.
 Say hi, Bobby.
 - It's hard to get these interconnections.
 - Well, we see Bobby on the screen.
 You're looking good, buddy.
 (laughing)
 Meanwhile, happy June 18th, everybody.
 (laughing)
 2024.
 And I hope you had a wonderful weekend
 and that your summer is unfolding.
 We're not quite there yet.
 Of course, Solstice is this weekend.
 It's coming right up.
 - I'm gonna write up and I think everybody is in
 a beautiful holiday spirit.
 Don't you notice as the days get longer,
 people have a much easier time smiling
 and feeling good about their lives.
 Just something about that extra time.
 - Just that warm weather, you know?
 - Yeah, yeah.
 I think it's the longer days, too.
 It's warmth and sunshine.
 (laughing)
 - Says Mrs. Sunny Future.
 (laughing)
 That's my theory, I'm sticking to it.
 - The warmth and sunshine, huh?
 - Yeah.
 (laughing)
 - Anyway, all right, so we're gonna stay tuned for Bobby.
 It's really been a crash into the live moment here
 because I just was finishing a little edit
 of my interview with Michelle.
 I sat down moments before it was time to go live.
 - And just as I went live,
 we had a great signal with Bobby,
 but for some reason it went out.
 - Well, don't worry about it.
 We'll figure it out.
 Meanwhile, we got lots of other things to talk about.
 I thought it was very interesting
 that there might be a problem
 that will stop us from going to Mars,
 at least in the very near future.
 - You mean besides our connections?
 - These are trivial.
 We'll figure them out pretty quick, you know?
 The real problem seems to be biological.
 The more that we want to try to go to other planets,
 the more new obstacles are thrown in our face.
 - Hey, no, no.
 - It's like the universe wants us to solve
 some really complicated things
 before we can actually leave this planet.
 - You think?
 - Yeah, some kind of advanced degree it takes
 to get out of here.
 - Uh-huh, so this is just a training ground, huh?
 Planner, soul school, can the mutated monkeys
 figure out how to get off the planet?
 - Why would they want to?
 First of all, they have to get past that period.
 - It's such a beautiful, I think.
 - Why would they even want to leave paradise?
 - Well, I think there's--
 - It looks like a hell world out there compared to here.
 - That's true.
 - Why would they leave?
 - Well, the ones that want to leave are explorers
 and the ones that want them to leave
 feel that they're messing up the planet.
 So there's people on both sides.
 (laughs)
 - Yeah, of course.
 And there's no right or wrong answer.
 And the fact is, there's only a small handful of people
 actually want to get out of here
 or leave this planet or leave heaven, if you will,
 relatively speaking.
 - Mm-hmm.
 - If you look at what's nearby,
 but they don't even have an atmosphere.
 The radiation, okay, the latest thing is that
 there's so much radiation from the sun out there
 and from the galactic background radiation
 that it causes biology to mutate and change
 and get damaged.
 - Well, this isn't new, is it?
 I thought NASA's been grappling with this
 from the very first flight.
 - They kind of knew it from several points of view,
 frankly.
 They had known since the '70s
 that space flight causes health issues like bone mass loss
 and heart and eyesight weakening
 and kidney stone development.
 But they were thought that was mostly
 from the solar winds and from the galactic cosmic radiation
 from deep space.
 But what happens is when you're near Earth,
 you're protected by the magnetic field
 around the planet that partially seals our astronauts
 that are like on the ISS.
 This is a low Earth orbit.
 But people going to the moon,
 they got experienced more of this galactic cosm--
 - Oh, so we're gonna have to start designing Mars ships
 that have a magnetosphere, huh?
 To protect our people when they start flying.
 - Well, just thinking something out of the box
 because the current studies indicate that the kidneys
 respond to space flight conditions rather extremely.
 And a study that involved over 40 institutions
 on five continents and all kinds of experiments
 and analysis and data.
 They looked at 40 space missions
 and the health of both humans and mice
 from the ISS especially.
 And then space simulations using this data.
 And they imagined that or they created for the animal studies
 what kind of radiation we'd exposed to
 if we actually went to Mars.
 We went for one and a half to two and a half years in space.
 And they replicated that data beyond the magnetic field.
 And the results, the most disturbing was that both human
 and animal kidneys that were remodeled in the simulations
 with kidney tubules moving calcium and salt balances.
 Well, they showed signs of shrinkage
 after less than a month.
 And there was so much change that they concluded
 that we'd be able to get there
 but the kidneys would fail on the trip back.
 - Wow.
 - That they wouldn't last more than a couple of years.
 - Right.
 - And that the shrinkage would make them
 so that they would stop working.
 - That pesky biology adjusting to space
 while we doesn't know we're planning to return back to Earth.
 - Well, yeah.
 - The big problem then is how do we protect our kidneys?
 - Yeah.
 - Right.
 - We gotta keep them pumped at Earth gravity
 the whole trip.
 - Yeah.
 Yeah.
 How do you keep them in line here with that?
 - Same thing with bone density, right?
 If you don't have gravity,
 the machine just doesn't work right.
 Our bodies don't know what to do in all that freedom.
 - Well, that's it.
 And that will also speak loudly of how bodies will mutate
 to handle the new environment that they find themselves in.
 There's a space environment
 and then there's the Mars environment.
 And for humans, if we wanna maintain our bodies as they are,
 then we have to kind of maintain a lot of the conditions
 in which our body likes to be in.
 Like one G gravity, lots of sunshine and fresh air.
 You know, exercise, right?
 Diet, all the things that we need need to be replicated
 in the space environment.
 The designs where they have giant hamster wheels
 that allow you to have one gravity.
 (laughs)
 - They're designed giant hamster wheels
 'cause it works so well for the test mice.
 - Yeah, yeah.
 It would help for our bodies to have the right gravity
 so that all our fluids work properly.
 Our plumbing was designed for this planet.
 - Right.
 And have you ever seen what happens to fluids in space?
 It just floats like a big giant blob.
 - Yeah, it's not the same, right?
 Not the same at all.
 So that's what you have to consider.
 It's like a back to the drawing board
 in terms of what's really livable
 in these harsh environments.
 - Yeah.
 - But the good news is that it trains us
 to really think and understand how ecosystems work
 by having to build one up from practically from scratch.
 - Sure.
 For some reason I'm reminded of Pat Flanagan
 who had that unique combination of disciplines
 that allowed him to think about biological systems
 with both an understanding of chemistry
 and understanding of physics
 and understanding of fluid dynamics
 which are three very different disciplines
 that look at the way that things are constructed
 very differently.
 - Very differently.
 - Yeah.
 - Yeah, that's important to notice.
 - Yeah.
 - So we think we have problems with our tech.
 No, that's nothing compared to
 how our biology is gonna deal with this.
 (whirring)
 We can see if we can have Bobby's line up there.
 - Okay, his volume is up.
 He's on your machine, right?
 - Yes.
 - Hey!
 - Hey, welcome to the show, Bobby.
 - Before the first set of commercials.
 - Yeah.
 - I'd say it's a record for lateness
 but still right on time.
 - Yeah, did you figure out what was going on there?
 - I uploaded the new iOS 18 developer version
 and in the last couple of nights
 it's been crashing like every five minutes.
 - Oh, and I tell her to say it.
 - Oh, you know, I think developer means willing
 to put up with lots of crashes.
 - Yeah, so if you drop out, we'll just blame Apple.
 - So I had to switch my whole sound system
 to another ad.
 - Hey, you sound great, by the way.
 - Oh, really?
 - Yeah, yeah, you're not over-amped.
 - There's no roadcaster, there's nothing.
 It's just the little mic on the iPad.
 - Oh, that's embarrassing.
 'Cause they're in here, you like to collect microphones.
 - Well, I'd say the only issue is
 that you're usually stereo and right now you're mono.
 - Yeah, and it does.
 There's more of a room noise than usual.
 - And the volume is lovely.
 - I wouldn't say it's a stellar signal,
 but I think you're very comprehensible
 in these frequencies.
 - I was able to hear you on Santa Cruz voice.
 - Yeah.
 - So yeah, so I'm with you there with a cosmic rays.
 - Yeah, okay, good.
 Good, yeah, so do you think this kidney problem
 could be solved?
 The idea that their kidneys seem to be taking a big hit
 in space from all the radiation.
 - Yeah, who wants to lose their kidneys
 just for a scenic trip tomorrow?
 - I don't know. - I don't know.
 - So bad that they wouldn't last the whole trip
 and the spaceships would have to be equipped
 with dialysis machines to return.
 - Yeah, I was gonna say they need to have
 a backup dialysis machine on the trip.
 - That's what it sounds like.
 - They're gonna have to have a daily therapeutic
 dialysis machine where people just,
 it's one of their daily exercises
 is keep those kidneys from collapsing, right?
 'Cause if you think about it,
 you're talking about an organelle that is an organ
 that is kind of like a sponge, it's a filter.
 It's got a lot of little tiny tubes
 and it conducts fluids with the intention
 of removing salts.
 And if those little ducts collapse,
 or if I guess the other problem is that they get calcified
 because as your bone mass depletes,
 that calcium goes into your system
 and hardens the kidneys.
 So all of these ways that the kidneys become clogged
 and calcified and dysfunctional are not reparable.
 - So the plumbing gets plugged up with kidney stones
 is what I'm gathering.
 - Well, that's one of the--
 - That was the prior theory.
 - They knew that, they had that happen already,
 that they knew that, but they didn't know
 that the kidneys would become dysfunctional
 after two years in space.
 - What about the IIS?
 - That's a lot of the data is from the IIS.
 And they say that the IISIS is protected
 from a lot of radiation 'cause it's in the Earth's
 magnetosphere, but when you go outside of the Earth,
 the magnetosphere, you're unprotected to lots of more radiation,
 both coming from the sun and from the galaxy.
 - Well, I think space is gonna teach us
 about our electromagnetic nature
 in a way that we've barely discovered so far, right?
 It's a very new science compared to chemistry.
 - Yeah, now if I was to really study
 how biology mutated in these environments,
 I would be raising creatures on the trip
 and the Mars Express.
 I'd have lots of embryos that were being born
 from all kinds of different species
 and look at how they adapt to the changing situations
 from being in the Earth's magnetosphere
 to being outside of it for a while.
 - Well, it's interesting, you should mention embryos.
 I remember reading just recently that,
 oh, in fact, it was huge, if true,
 the podcast from a wonderful woman scientist,
 whose first name is Cleo.
 And she was investigating cryogenesis
 and whether or not we have reached the state of science
 where we could freeze someone to send to space
 or to send them a long space journey.
 And she said that as of now, most cells,
 when the water in them is frozen,
 will be destroyed by the crystal that is formed by the ice
 and that will shred all of the cells.
 - Well, that's been known for a while.
 - The most resilient cells that can currently make
 the journey are embryos.
 - Yeah, well, frozen embryos.
 I guess the younger you are, the more resilient you are.
 - They're simpler too.
 They're simpler.
 Also, the idea is that because it's the very beginning of life,
 it's going to have the best adaptation capabilities
 for the environment in which it finds itself.
 So as a human seed, it can adapt quickly to wherever it is
 and make it home.
 So that's the value of it.
 And chances are that there'll be embryos
 that embrace radiation in ways that current embryos don't
 and current cell systems don't.
 You know, biology is constantly changing
 and adapting to whatever is being exposed to.
 - Well, I think this article that you've highlighted here
 makes a very interesting statement that surprises me a lot.
 It says you cannot protect your kidneys
 from galactic radiation using shielding.
 - Well, that's probably what the journalist
 was told by some scientist.
 - Right, because--
 - They're just thinking of a specific kind of shielding,
 no doubt, and probably traditional shielding doesn't work.
 What do you think, Bobby?
 - I think we're going to have to wear aluminum foil underwear.
 - No, no, wait, that would be normal.
 - That's shielding, Bobby.
 - That's the little shielding, Bobby,
 that doesn't work anymore.
 - You think that's going to work?
 - No, you have to take that side of the box
 of the shielding stuff. - And you're going to have
 to wear a kidney plate, you know,
 you're going to have to wear it over your kidneys,
 underwear, I guess you're talking about t-shirts.
 - Well, maybe some kind of force field.
 - When you go to the dentist and they take x-rays
 and put that cloak over your chest.
 - Yeah, uh-huh.
 - Well, it's x-rays, which also block gamma rays too.
 So, but you know--
 - Yeah, shielding is good.
 - Shielding is good.
 I just have to be aware of what it doesn't shield.
 I guess that's what they're saying there.
 - Well, and I'm still holding out for them
 inventing some kind of plasma field
 that simulates the magnetospheric protection
 that we enjoy here on the planet.
 And they'll just add that to the spaceship.
 (laughs)
 But hey--
 - How do you get that?
 (laughs)
 - I need a miniature black hole or something.
 - Well, that's going a whole nother part
 of the physics spectrum.
 Black holes in magnetic fields are related,
 but they're not the same.
 - No, they're not, they're not.
 Jeez, we were just reading about black holes yesterday.
 - We were, yeah.
 We're getting into the whole history of it.
 The physicists are reinventing the science
 and the explanation and even how we think about
 the Big Bang at the beginning of time.
 - Oh, right, right.
 Yes, it was one of those deep articles
 that really gets into an explanation
 of the cosmology of universe.
 - Yes.
 - And one of my takeaways was Stephen Hawking's understanding
 or speculation initially and maybe an understanding later,
 where does dark matter hide in the universe?
 Where does it exist and that we can't see it?
 'Cause we've not been able to find this dark matter
 that supposedly consists of most of the universe.
 Way more than our stars and galaxies, et cetera.
 And his theory is that the dark matter hides inside black holes.
 (laughing)
 Basically, that's what we can't see.
 'Cause we can't see inside.
 - See, this is one of those science hypotheses
 that we can just take on faith
 because we can't find out.
 There's no interaction with light,
 there's no way of knowing whether it's true or false.
 - The pragmatist scientist out there saying,
 "Well, we can't see anything, nothing."
 (laughing)
 Maybe it doesn't exist?
 And they said, "No, the theorists say,
 "Oh, no, no, no, no, it totally exists theoretically."
 (laughing)
 Way proof.
 - Well, unless the whole atomic model is wrong
 and unless everything is really empty and energy
 and vibrating frequencies and everything we know is wrong,
 right? (laughing)
 - Until we actually have captured a black hole.
 - Right now we're dealing with the physics of matter.
 I think of it as like the physics of cannonballs, right?
 And we just try and think of cannonballs
 as having this magic principle called gravity,
 which sucks things towards them.
 And it's a very weak force,
 so we can only observe it at the level of outer space
 and looking at pulsars and watching their gravity mutations
 across many parsecs of the universe.
 And other than that, we can't measure gravity.
 But we know it exists and it's a quality of mass,
 but mass itself is a quality that's derived from mathematics.
 And the whole mathematics universe that describes physics
 is all just different conversations among scientists
 about how does it all add up?
 How can we measure every piece of everything that exists?
 How can we count it?
 - So you're saying mathematical models
 is just another form of speculation.
 - Yes, I am saying that.
 And I like to cite Ralph Abraham in his book,
 "Form and Vibration," he had to invent a new mathematics
 called Chaos Theory to explain a type of physics
 that goes beyond what our current physics models are using.
 And the idea that just like when meteorologists
 are predicting the weather,
 when you get up to more than 40 variables affecting the outcome,
 you're really back into the zone of it's kind of random.
 You don't know which of the factors is
 making the contribution.
 You have to look at it holistically.
 You have to look at it in a different way.
 And the mathematics that the Chaos Theory that Ralph developed
 was in order to come up with a way of creating equations
 that could describe those complex systems
 and measure the way that they interacted.
 And we're still trying to figure out even how to describe
 the universe much less be certain about how it all works.
 - A certainty is a fun game.
 - It is, it is.
 - But you're saying there's a lot not to be certain about.
 - Yeah, yeah, there's a foundation of reality
 to know what is. - I like the scientists
 who understand that they're asking questions,
 not the scientists who state that they know what's true.
 That's just my personal belief, my personal preference.
 Hey, it's time for that a little bit.
 - It's time for that a little bit.
 - It's time of day, absolutely.
 Let's go say hello to some folks from Santa Cruz Voice.
 And then we'll be back.
 - In search of the missing file,
 we'll be back with it in a moment.
 - Okay, be right back.
 (crowd cheering)
 - Hi, I'm Nancy, the Tasting Room Manager
 at Parshetta Winery in SoCal,
 where we've been producing award-winning wine since 1933.
 Our T-Stoo Rooms are open daily at our SoCal location
 at 3535 North Main Street,
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 We host weddings, receptions, and special events.
 Go to bargetto.com to find out more,
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 There's always something happening at Bargetto Winery.
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 100% locally owned and operated,
 we're here to be your friendly neighborhood hookup.
 We believe that everyone should have access
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 So we work hard to get it to you for 30 to 50%
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 If you're 21 or older with a valid ID,
 visit us in Capitola or in Watsonville today.
 We're here to be your friendly neighborhood hookup.
 Check out our website hookoutlet.com
 for deals and stay groovy.
 - Hey Warren, you know it's been a while since I've been
 up to your showroom at Garden Center in Scotts Valley.
 Maybe the folks out there might want to know where you are.
 - Absolutely, to find Knox Roofing
 and the Knox Garden Box Company
 just head up into beautiful Scotts Valley.
 We're off of Highway 17 with only two exes to choose from.
 We're at 46 El Pueblo Road next door
 to Scarborough Lumber and the beautiful nursery.
 We have a great showroom displaying all the many choices
 in roofing from tile, composition, steel,
 flat systems in many styles and now solar.
 And when it comes to wood items,
 we have it's all about wood gift shop.
 And of course the Knox Garden Box, what's a Knox Box?
 Lots to look at and while you're in Scotts Valley,
 check out the town.
 There's nice restaurants, breweries, wineries, shopping,
 hotels, farmers markets and the entrance
 to the beautiful redwoods.
 Okay folks, as always we appreciate all of you out there.
 We'd love to see you at Knox Roofing
 and the Knox Garden Box store
 and we can also come see you as well.
 Okay, thanks folks.
 (upbeat music)
 (upbeat music)
 Okay, welcome back to the show.
 We have a little piece that Sun,
 I came as his future, just created.
 Just yesterday because we weren't sure
 if Dr. Future was gonna be at jury duty
 and I thought I might be juggling too many balls
 to do a live interview without him here.
 But here he is and so we did the live interview yesterday.
 It's called Whale Song.
 We love living in the Monterey Bay area
 and it's whale season and it's the solstice
 and so here in Santa Cruz for us,
 that puts us in a mindset to do something
 where we have a little sacred time with our fellow
 - On the solstice, yeah. - fellow earth creatures.
 - Often little drum circles on the beach,
 gatherings, dances.
 - Yes, so in this case we have a dear friend
 who has her website, highvibelife.io
 that you can check out.
 - And here we go.
 - I would like to introduce you all to Michelle Newman,
 who is a member of our Santa Cruz spiritual community.
 She's very active in creating opportunities
 for people to immerse in their higher self
 and to connect with the earth and the spirit beyond.
 And she is very musical and has an upcoming event
 that we'll hear a little bit about.
 But I just wanna say, hello, hi Michelle, how are you?
 - Hello, son.
 I am so happy to be speaking with you.
 (gentle music)
 Hello, I'm Michelle Newman.
 I am highvibelife priestess.
 I am a psychic sound healer.
 I wanted to compliment you on conceiving of this event
 that you have coming up this next weekend.
 - Which is spiritual hydration with the whales.
 We are going on the summer solstice,
 which is this coming Saturday, June 22nd.
 We're meeting at the Sea Goddess,
 which is a beautiful whale vessel.
 Tell us a little bit about your creation of this event.
 Do you have a connection with the whales
 and what are you hoping to see happen?
 - I have been communicating with whales
 for many, many years, both in Hawaii and here.
 And I go on whale boats often.
 My experience with connecting with the whales
 is that they are beautiful multi-dimensional beings.
 And as a psychic, I connect to multi-dimensional realms.
 And so the whales are very amazingly high beings
 who are here to teach humanity
 what we can do to expand into higher consciousness.
 - Wow, that's beautiful.
 - Can I ask you a question?
 - Well, of course.
 - When was the first time that you noticed
 and tuned into your connection with the whales?
 - Probably in my 20s, I'm 71 now,
 so it's been a long time.
 I'm a sailor, I've been sailing since I was a young woman.
 And I go out all the time.
 And when I feel the energy of the whales and the dolphins,
 and my psychic sense,
 my intuitive inner soul opens up to them,
 I really, I hear them.
 - What kinds of messages have you received from them?
 - Well, the whales,
 the specifically the humpbacks have spoken to me.
 I kayak out in the Monterey Bay a lot
 and they come and they circle me.
 And first, I've been on a kayak
 where they literally swim around me.
 And they put me into a magic bubble.
 I feel like I'm transported into another dimension.
 And then they say, please pay attention to us.
 Please listen, please take care of the planet.
 Please take care of our oceans.
 Our oceans need healing, our planet needs healing.
 And they ask us to please tune in
 to what it takes to healing our planet, Mama.
 Because if we heal our planet, we heal ourselves.
 And when we can tune in to the awareness
 of what is going to be healing for our planet,
 both the blue and the green,
 then humans will move into a different state of awareness.
 And in that respect,
 our souls will integrate differently.
 We will have a different awareness.
 We can change the disintegration
 of what we're seeing around us,
 the anger, the hatred, the polarity.
 They are saying we can change all of that
 by tuning in to them as teachers.
 - Oh, beautiful.
 That's such an appropriate message
 for where we are right now.
 - We need it.
 - We do.
 Now, I wanted to talk to you also about the power of a circle.
 And of course, you'll be bringing your sacred bowls
 to the circle.
 And I want to talk about that too,
 but you're inviting people to join you on a boat.
 And in the boat, you're going to be creating a sacred space.
 What do you think a prayer circle is good for?
 - A prayer circle brings people together
 so that when they're all facing each other in circle,
 their hearts can all open up.
 And the center of the circle is the focal point
 for everyone's hearts.
 And when their hearts put themselves into the center
 and the facilitator who will be me
 is asking people to open up their hearts
 and souls in sacred space,
 it's an easy place when people are ready
 for their souls to start to expand.
 And when their souls start to expand,
 there's an energy that literally comes out
 of your physical body and into the center.
 It's as if we're all putting something special
 and sacred to us into the center of the circle.
 And when we mingle that very high goal,
 when we mingle the high intention with each other
 and we gather a spiritual pod as we are doing,
 whenever there is one or more gathered,
 it brings in a higher prayer state.
 And so that's exactly what happens.
 We are gathered here with a very specific intention
 to put our hearts and souls into the center
 to mingle with each other.
 And then we can all raise our own personal vibration,
 which in connection with communicating with whales
 and dolphins then raises a higher vibration of the group,
 which then emanates out into the bio field,
 into our, literally our air, our space
 to raise the vibration of the planet.
 - Beautiful.
 And then how do you enhance that
 with your beautiful crystal bowls?
 - Well, the crystal bowls, we are all made of crystal.
 Our bones have the same crystalline function, our teeth.
 When people hear the crystal bowls,
 their whole cellular structure and physical structure,
 and we all start to vibrate.
 (gentle music)
 We start to vibrate with the hurts
 that the bowl is playing.
 We tune in naturally to that.
 And the bowls will bring us to a higher vibrational level.
 It's why people love sound baths so much
 because the bowls will naturally,
 just if you are used to meditating or praying
 and it's not something that's easy,
 the bowls will just put you there in a moment.
 The bowls will easily put you into that state
 because we are all vibrating together
 and the crystal of the bowls.
 And these are specific alchemical.
 Each of these bowls that I have have an alchemy
 that brings people into that easy state of openness
 and awareness and high consciousness.
 You don't have to try, there's nothing to do.
 You just sit and listen.
 - Beautiful.
 This weekend you've got a three hour trip plan
 on the sea goddess out of Moss Landing.
 - That was correct.
 - You're heading out at 3 p.m. on Saturday.
 How can people find out more?
 - We're heading out at 3 p.m.
 but we're asking people to come at 2.30
 to begin the sacred circle
 before we actually board onto sea goddess.
 If you go to Facebook and you go to High Vibe Life,
 you will see the event that we have
 which says, "Sea Goddess, Spiritual Hydration with Wales."
 Come and get your spiritual hydration.
 It's our sacred summer solstice ceremony
 and the whales are calling you to come
 and experience this.
 - How much will people be asked to contribute?
 - It's 187 and for the 187,
 you get a three hour meditation ceremony,
 sacred ceremony where you get to go
 into your own private retreat and really connect
 and find out what message the whales have for you personally.
 - Fantastic.
 - So you will be receiving a beautiful bouquet
 of upliftment and holding your pure peaceful presence
 and really receiving what is your soul here
 to do on this planet to help us lift up.
 Everybody wants to know what is their soul mission
 and talking to the whales can help you understand
 your own personal soul mission.
 - Beautiful.
 Well, thank you so much, Michelle Newman.
 Saturday, June 22nd.
 Michelle, would you like to give people an email
 or a phone number where they can call you
 or get more information?
 - My email is Michelle with one L M I C H T L E
 at High Vibe Life, that's H I H I G H Vibe
 high five life dot U S.
 That is my email.
 My website is high five life dot I O
 and my phone number is eight three one two four seven
 one four eight nine.
 And you can find this event on my Facebook page
 at high vibe life.
 - Beautiful.
 All right, thanks so much, Michelle.
 And I hope you guys have a wonderful sacred experience
 in your ceremony this Saturday.
 - Thank you, my pleasure.
 - It's been a pleasure and I look forward
 to hearing from everybody.
 (laughs)
 - Okay, thanks, bye bye.
 - Okay, so any final thoughts on that?
 The whale connection?
 - Well, I certainly love going out on a boat
 with a sacred ceremony and playing music
 and contacting whales.
 It's thrilling.
 Contacting whales is one of the most beautiful things
 you can do as a human on earth.
 And I think everybody who goes on this journey
 is in for a treat.
 We have some conflicting priorities that day
 and are not able to make it, but you know,
 it's definitely the kind of thing I love to do.
 - Yeah, about two months ago, we went out on a whale trip,
 not quite as spiritually oriented,
 was a birthday party.
 - Yeah, a lot of our whale trips are really just out there
 and they have fun with whales, placing drums.
 - Yeah, but we did have a few sacred instruments on board
 and nothing like Michelle's bringing them.
 This is gonna be the full Monty.
 What I find is that the whales tend to like people
 tuning into them.
 - Yeah, they appreciate being appreciated.
 - They appreciate channels are open, it seems.
 - And they might actually, I've seen them actually
 perform for us, you know, where they come up
 and go under the boat and come up the other side.
 - Like we all together say, show us a bridge,
 jump out of the water.
 - Yeah.
 - And a few minutes later, there they are.
 Oh, you get to see the whole thing.
 - And certainly one of the more joyous things
 I've ever seen is when the whales
 and the dolphins play together with the seals.
 They all have a Jesus, great fun out there at the bait ball.
 - Oh yeah, life likes to have fun.
 - Yeah, that's what you have observed.
 - That's when the anchovies come in in mass
 and all the critters like anchovies.
 - Oh yeah, I wonder everybody's so happy.
 - That's the whales.
 - It's the anchovy harvest in the deep
 - The seals. - Monterey Bay.
 - They all come out together,
 it's like the watering hole in Africa or something.
 And you go out there and you see all these different
 creatures feeding on the anchovies and sometimes sardines
 and they're having a blast.
 It's very peaceful, they're play, they play there too.
 Like the seals will see how many they can fit in one wave.
 (laughs)
 You know, they all jump into this wave
 and serve at the same time.
 That is really quite funny.
 - So you'll get to see stuff like that out there
 if you're lucky.
 But generally this time of year,
 you'll see lots of whales, especially humpbacks.
 Grazers have been seen, even a blue or two
 have been seen out here and certainly the orcas.
 It's fascinating area we are at the Monterey Bay.
 It's an amazing place.
 And one of the things it is,
 is this great pit stop for the whales coming from Alaska
 to Mexico and we're from Mexico up to Alaska.
 This is one of their stops.
 They really seem to enjoy it here.
 And we get to experience that when they're in that state.
 - Yeah.
 - So Solstice is calling.
 If it's calling you to the whales,
 be sure and get down there to Moss Landing on Saturday,
 2.30 PM.
 - And with your friends, it's good to do it as well.
 If you have some friends that you enjoy hanging out with,
 go on a whale trip together.
 - On the sea goddess this weekend.
 And of course there's a lot of trip,
 there's a lot of really great services down there
 in Moss Landing.
 (loud
 sound)
 - And we're reasonably close to them.
 - Right.
 - They're right here.
 - Yeah.
 - What can AI researchers learn from alien hunters?
 - Yes.
 - Good question.
 - They're sanctified by the priesthood.
 - Yeah.
 We have some official alien hunters that have great reputations
 and they're leading the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
 - Setty, yeah.
 The Setty Institute over an amount of you.
 - Right.
 - And their approach towards looking for alien intelligence,
 their approach might actually be useful in looking towards
 artificial general intelligence.
 The super intelligence is of the near future
 that will soon be joining us
 in this adventure of existence.
 So what does Setty Institute have to teach us about how to look
 for the emergence of AGI?
 So it's very interesting piece.
 - Now of course, Setty Institute, most of the people listening
 to this show would probably recognize that the movie
 "Contact" was based basically on a sci-fi story that maybe is
 homage to Jill Tarter, who was the astronomer,
 who was associated with the early days of--
 - Well this goes back saying, I guess one of our local heroes
 and that was Drake.
 - The Drake equation.
 - Yeah, the Drake equation.
 And Dr. Drake was here at the astronomy department
 until his passing a couple years ago.
 - In Santa Cruz.
 - Frank Drake, yes.
 - Yes, he's a legend.
 The idea goes back at least 60 years at the beginning
 of the space age, 1959.
 There was a paper by two physicists, Giuseppe Cucconi
 and Philip Morrison.
 In their paper, they described the need to search
 for interstellar communications.
 And they assumed that the uncertainty of any of these
 civilizations actually existing or having any technical
 sophistication, they figured that any alien society would
 try to communicate with narrow-band frequencies.
 - So in 1959, these scientists took themselves seriously enough
 to speculate that if they were trying to communicate from
 Earth with extraterrestrial species, then extraterrestrial
 species might be trying to communicate with us using radio
 frequencies because that's what our telescopes were using
 for understanding the most remote data.
 - And that shows you the problem here.
 Because as we know today, radio frequencies are kind of outdated
 already, 60 years later.
 We're already onto laser light communicating, using light
 for communications.
 - Yeah, I think our old radio station owner told us recently
 that they were one of the last broadcasting radio frequency
 stations of their type of the RCA bunker radio station model.
 Like most of them are museums now.
 They're not actually broadcasting.
 - So, SETIP, they didn't find any surprise, surprise.
 (laughing)
 - Well, I guess they're using internet.
 - Right.
 (laughing)
 - Intelligent life on other planets, just scrap the AM signal.
 - Okay, so how does this apply to looking for super intelligent
 AGI awareness?
 Well, right away, you gotta know what you're looking for.
 You know, what are we looking for?
 Looking for radio, where are we looking for intelligence
 on the right place?
 - There is a big fight going on.
 I don't know, is the suit that Elon brought against OpenAI
 still going to have the courts determine whether or not
 they've actually created AGI?
 - No, there's no consensus in this area.
 - There's no definition about it.
 - And that's part of the problem is that it's complicated
 that there's no clear definition
 of artificial general intelligence.
 There's lots of terms.
 There's AGI, we hear a lot.
 You hear strong AI.
 You hear human level intelligence and super intelligence.
 - Well, you know who I think really got it down a while ago
 in the 80s was Jane Wagner, because she wrote this play
 called Looking for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe
 performed by Lily Tomlin.
 - Yeah.
 - I think that was probably the definition
 we should go back to.
 - Oh yeah.
 - It's a play.
 It's a comedy.
 - Yeah, I think she has some kind of--
 - I guess nobody got that joke, but boom.
 That was an attempt at humor for those who completely missed it.
 - I remember the play, but I didn't see this.
 I missed it, but I didn't, I missed it, but I missed it.
 I admit.
 Did you get it, Bobby?
 (laughs)
 - I missed it too.
 I was fiddling around with my controls.
 - Oh, well, it's not a lie, but--
 - Yeah, so explain us the joke.
 - From it, because I remember--
 - No, no, no, you have to explain a joke.
 It's over.
 - No, no, no, no, no, it's not.
 - Believe me, you will laugh during the replay.
 I promise, okay, 'cause you won't be paying attention
 to something else while I flat my lips.
 (laughs)
 As typically happens, when you've been together this long,
 you get a lot of grace to just ignore each other.
 - So I talk about AGI and she thinks Lily Tomlin's play, okay.
 - Because Lily Tomlin was looking for signs
 of intelligent life.
 - In the universe.
 - Like SETI.
 - Like SETI, exactly.
 And I was proposing that that was a very good,
 early definition of intelligent life.
 That's all I was saying.
 - Looking for signs of--
 - Yes, yes, and I'm the only one that realized
 that I was making a witty comment.
 (laughs)
 That's a legend in my own mind.
 Once again, oops.
 (laughs)
 - That's okay, that's okay.
 - I don't know, maybe I'm on the wrong podcast.
 (laughs)
 - I should be on a different podcast.
 - No, no, no, just try it.
 You're gonna be a comedian, keep trying.
 - Okay.
 - Keep trying to get on, I'm willing to listen to it.
 - Tough crowd.
 - I still have a--
 - Tough crowd.
 - Still a laughing.
 - I know.
 - That's 'cause you weren't listening.
 - I'm trying, I'm trying.
 You're hard to listen to on some--
 - You're trying.
 - I don't know.
 - I agree you are trying.
 (laughs)
 But I'm sure you feel the same way about me.
 - Sometimes.
 How's our timing going?
 - We're going off the area yet?
 (laughs)
 - Oh, oh, oh, it is the top of the hour.
 - Five, four, three, two, one.
 Hey, we'll be back after the Santa Cruz Voice.net.
 Prayk, I mean, dot com.
 (laughs)
 (eerie music)
 ♪ We've been traveling all night ♪
 ♪ Someday we'll stay ♪
 ♪ Until we turn back ♪
 - Okay, we are back with myself, Outlondell,
 my wife, Sunny Lundell, aka Mrs. Future,
 and Bobby Wilder and San Fran.
 Welcome back, you guys.
 - Yeah, glad to be here.
 - Yeah.
 - We're looking at this challenge
 of how we're gonna recognize an AGI when we see one.
 And that's the first thing is that--
 - Which means artificial general intelligence.
 - That's right, the first super intelligence
 that's not human.
 And the crucial step is right now,
 we don't know exactly what to look for.
 In the case of SETI, where they're trying to identify
 alien intelligence for the first time,
 they found that narrow bound signals
 that were distinct from other radio signals coming
 from the galaxy or the background radiation,
 those signals were considered intentional
 and could only be produced by intelligent life,
 narrow band signals.
 - Yeah, and the concept I like to use
 for what they're trying to do at SETI
 is distinguish the signal from the noise.
 It's the original signal to noise research.
 - Specific pattern, specific frequencies.
 - Is it a signal or is it just background chaos?
 - Yeah, that kind of makes sense, right?
 I mean, in terms of looking for signals, if you will,
 but in the case of looking for artificial general intelligence,
 it's a little more complicated.
 - Yeah, what are we supposed to measure?
 - Well, there's no clear definition for starters.
 There's, as I mentioned before,
 the superintelligence, human level intelligence.
 So it's hard to describe it.
 - Well, not that long ago,
 before we thought we were really dealing with AI
 and we were still in the sci-fi zone,
 people were saying that when computers could convince people
 that they were human, that that was a pretty big milestone.
 - Well, yeah, put yourself in the position of--
 - The Turing test.
 - Of identifying this person in front of this being
 in front of you or what you're talking to
 on the phone is being real or not.
 What do you use for your criteria
 for determining if that's a human?
 - I think a lot of people would say that AI is there.
 They feel like they're talking--
 - They're talking to people.
 - Not just to a human, but to a really smart human
 and a human with a personality and maybe a bureaucratic
 creative human, but maybe getting a little boring.
 - So it'd be able to fool most of the people
 most of the time at this point, right?
 - Currently, but I think there are--
 - There are things that make it signature AI too,
 because what we're talking about at this moment
 in the development of artificial general intelligence
 is the public playing with large language models
 and also large sound systems and also large image systems.
 And these kinds of collections of human creation
 that have been put in one access point
 where the computer can sort through way more information
 than any individual human can sort through
 and can create patterns--
 - But what about the crucial question
 of whether or not a true AGI must include consciousness?
 - We don't have a definition for consciousness.
 We don't have a definition for intelligence.
 - How about self-awareness?
 - We don't have definitions for these things.
 It's like love.
 It means something a little different to everybody.
 - That's the problem with hard scientists
 is they don't like soft science so much.
 - They don't?
 - Well, they poo poo it.
 - Speak for yourself.
 - The hard science is just too loosey-goosey.
 Self-awareness, personhood, self-actualization,
 consciousness.
 - Well, there are humans that prefer more certainty
 and they're more on the mathematical brain side
 and there are humans who prefer more intuition
 and they're not.
 And yet, those two things come together in true science
 because we are asking questions about things we don't know
 and then we are speculating that if those things are true,
 we should be able to predict things
 and that prediction is actually speculation
 whether or not people think they're smarter
 just 'cause they're good predictors.
 It's still--
 - Still speculation, yeah.
 A lot of speculation out there
 and it's often confused with fact.
 - Yeah.
 - Okay, so far we don't have any true definition of AGI
 so already we don't know what to look for.
 So that's challenge one is what are we actually look for.
 I guess if you're a designer,
 you're looking at what are you actually designing for?
 - Mm-hmm, yeah.
 - That would be a big question in my mind.
 - And this is something else that is seldom said
 when people are talking about the benefits
 and the dangers of AI is how many different aspects
 are being invented by the creative community.
 AI does not mean one thing.
 - No, it doesn't.
 It doesn't.
 It's the invention aspect
 because there is that engineering component
 where you're not just studying reality like with biology
 but you're creating reality.
 - And there's so many different ways to slice the brain.
 - Whatever, but I'm pumped.
 (beep)
 (laughs)
 Yeah, many ways to think about it.
 Okay, so already we don't know how to identify it
 and then the other thing that the engineers
 and the scientists mostly want to do
 is that once we've identified something,
 we want to measure it.
 - Right, this article is all about
 how SETI approached these problems
 and it's a really beautiful grounded conversation
 about how you approach certainty in a sea of chaos.
 - I get an electromagnetic radio signal.
 I want to know what frequencies,
 I want to know where it's coming from,
 I want to see how it's repeating itself,
 I want to look at patterns in it,
 all that kind of stuff.
 That's the assessments.
 - Right, and so that would just be one little tiny model
 in a sea of approaches to how to sort the data
 and look for patterns in the large language model.
 - That's right, that's right.
 In terms of AGI, while Alan Turing back in 1950
 came up with the imitation game,
 that's now called the Turing test,
 which I'm sure you've all heard of,
 that's trying to assess whether people interacting
 with the AI can distinguish it from a human or not.
 - Yeah, I think HAL in 2001,
 I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that.
 - Yes, well HAL, I never doubted what was an AI.
 I always knew what he was doing.
 You know that really freaky idea in science fiction
 for this was when the bad Terminator in Terminator 2,
 the cop, the one that could melt and reconstruct himself?
 - When I saw him demonstrate his ability to change his voice
 by calling Sarah Connors in the voice of her son,
 it was very convincing.
 So the fact that the AI intelligences can create
 any voice on the spot.
 - You know that, that exact scene is probably the reason
 why everybody is afraid of AI right now.
 Is that exact scene?
 'Cause everybody's so afraid, even Donald Trump
 was talking about the AI's being so good
 that they made a commercial
 and he didn't remember making that commercial, you know?
 (laughing)
 - She looks like the guy would make, but I didn't make it.
 Yeah, it was a good idea.
 That's the thing, that's the face becoming more and more real
 and easier to access by anybody.
 What software on your machine?
 So the idea of people figuring out how to scam others
 with that naturally will happen.
 I don't think that'll be the main use for it,
 but that certainly you have to protect against that.
 How do you protect against that?
 That is the question right now.
 - Well that's the job for the anti-scammers.
 - Yeah, like for example.
 - They're gonna use AI to become smarter
 than the scammer AI's.
 Hopefully, I'm certainly trying to figure it out.
 I know they're trying to use subtle watermarks.
 There's both acoustic and visual watermarking,
 like a branding technology that makes it hard for you
 to know it's branded unless you have the software.
 - Have you given up on your long-held belief
 that trying to keep anything private
 is going to just become obsolete?
 - Ultimately yes, but there's a timeline.
 There's a timeline where things become obsolete.
 And that's what--
 - Well, for instance, when throughout your life
 you've always been documenting everything
 with the latest video technology.
 From the time it was a big giant thing
 that you had to carry in a suitcase
 to where it's in every phone.
 There was a transition where you met a lot of resistance
 and people telling you you were not allowed
 to take a picture with your phone.
 And you always--
 - Well that still happens to me.
 - It still happens, yeah.
 - No, but the point is that we watched
 as the technology became more ubiquitous
 and as people had phones in their pocket
 and everybody was carrying a phone with them to a concert,
 they couldn't possibly enforce the rule
 that the band owns the picture and the recording.
 And so everybody had to adopt a new normal
 that of course people film and that those films,
 they're not the highest quality,
 they're not the ones you want, they are your own,
 but they all look like each other.
 And so that's kind of now just the lowest common denominator,
 but it's no longer that you can't do it.
 And thus all future of data.
 - Well the fact that everyone has it now,
 but of course I think in terms of biological metaphors
 about the evolution of these things,
 I see the phone in our pocket
 ultimately becoming like a seventh sense,
 after the sixth sense of course.
 And the seventh sense will include the other senses,
 especially video and audio,
 both of which, you notice the phones are equipped to go live,
 not just recording.
 - I think you were out of the room
 when Bobby was saying he wanted the ability to play back.
 I think that's what you're calling the seventh sense, right?
 - Playback.
 - That allows you to play back what just got recorded.
 - Well playback is primitive right now,
 but playback should be at least as good as our memory system.
 - Right.
 - That's right, our digital memory should be equally
 as available as our biological, and if not more so,
 because they don't forget.
 - Right.
 - You know, we have a system of accessing non-linearly
 our memory, and we're using it every second.
 Our technology is still very linear
 in how we treat video and audio.
 It's not holographically real time, like in the human memory,
 but it can be, and it's just a matter of time before it is.
 - Yeah.
 - I don't think of media as shows per se,
 as much as the sense at this point,
 and an evolving part of our species nervous system.
 As such, it has different boundaries
 and different ways of thinking about it
 than if you were just making media with your phone,
 but you're not.
 Most people are not making media,
 but mostly just communicating.
 It's part of their ex-unervous system that's forming.
 So keep that in mind in terms of the AIs as well,
 because they are all networked, a lot of them are,
 and there are many networks,
 and it's a decentralized intelligence as well.
 It's not just an AI, it's a multitude of them,
 just like software.
 There's a multitude of types of software.
 The difference is that AI can influence
 every other kind of software.
 It's like a meta, it's like an umbrella
 that goes into all of them, or they're all part of.
 So that's a different dimension that you have to look for.
 How well is it able to communicate
 with other parts of itself, or other parts of the world,
 or other parts of our intelligence?
 Is it possible that they'll start communicating
 with the other creatures on this planet as well?
 Not just humans, that it won't be so human centric
 and its ability to communicate with others?
 Mark Rober comes to mind with his experiments
 with the squirrels in the backyard
 playing with squirrel intelligence.
 Oh yeah, we did a show on that.
 Trying to communicate with creatures
 using the benefits of modern technology.
 Yeah, over at Crunch Labs.
 Yes, so that we're surrounded by intelligence
 in many forms already.
 We mostly ignore nature, but it's there,
 and their squirrels are very smart,
 and they're very aware of us in many ways
 that we're not of them, and the AI's could help us
 communicate better with the creatures around us
 if we choose to go in that direction.
 Well, I don't think the AI's can help us
 with anything that we can't understand ourselves,
 because we're gonna have to pave the way for them
 to have it be part of what they can offer back to us.
 Yeah, you gotta make it available to them.
 They're creating an interface for it.
 Yeah.
 So there's a need to design evaluations
 by which we measure this AGI, and it's sub dimensions.
 That's gonna require a lot of interesting people
 in many fields to understand ways
 in which we can test intelligence in creativity,
 and it's an open question.
 The IEEE folks who are looking at this believe
 that there's one more challenge also that we need to deal with.
 Once we have contact, either with aliens or with AGI,
 once we've discovered a new form of intelligence,
 how do we deal with it?
 Does it have any rights?
 Do we have to regard it as another civilization?
 What are the dangers of it hurting us or us hurting it?
 Are there diseases that we could get from each other?
 Mine viruses.
 Mine viruses.
 (laughing)
 The mind body problem is solved.
 They do a mind virus.
 (laughing)
 Because initially in the wrong direction.
 Right, what we were looking at in a mind virus AI
 sci-fi last night, right?
 That's one that started in April.
 Oh, Mrs. Davis?
 Oh, yes, Mrs. Davis, right?
 Thanks for recommending that.
 Thanks, Gab.
 Thanks, Gab.
 Yeah, Gabby.
 We definitely are enjoying the strange new sci-fi series
 called Mrs. Davis.
 It's a peacock special.
 Yeah.
 So SETI is a bit of an inspiration dealing
 and how we might deal with AGI
 because SETI had protocols for dealing with aliens
 and their protocols included transparency
 that we should share the information
 unlike the current deep state,
 which seems to like to keep it a secret.
 Oh my goodness.
 We keep hearing from Danny Shann about his never ending
 efforts to try and get the Congress to enact laws
 that insist that the UFO and extraterrestrial information
 collected by the military even 50 years ago
 be released to the public.
 And they're playing all these games to make it,
 oh, we don't know anything about it.
 And there's just flat out lying to Congress going on.
 And some people that are into transparency
 are trying to force the government to be accountable
 to the people and they're running into entrenched resistance.
 So transparency is just such important thing for our society.
 Supposedly government at least is supposed to have that
 except for the intelligence.
 It seems--
 Well, I mean, if you're going into unknown territories
 such as meeting extraterrestrial life on behalf of humanity,
 you need humanity to know about it.
 Yeah.
 And also SETI was suggesting, or they plan,
 that if they ever contact aliens,
 that they would connect them with the United Nations.
 I'm not sure that's a good idea.
 Well, I think in the era when SETI was being formed,
 there was a lot more hope for the success of the United Nations.
 I think at this point, people feel like everything
 in government, it's been compromised.
 And the centralized authorities think that they're above
 the rest of the people and that they have different rules.
 And nobody wants that kind of United Nations.
 We want a United Nations that reflects the belief
 that the power resides with the people and the individual people
 and not that they're excluded from the power
 by those who are smart enough to take it from them.
 Yes, and going through the United Nations
 would increase the credibility of the contact experience.
 It's just like 1950s and movies.
 We didn't mean the day they were stood still.
 And the United Nations had big meetings on the sorcerer
 that landed in Washington, D.C.
 Yeah, so that is cooperation with the United Nations
 in its highest form should be able to help us connect
 with other intelligences.
 So maybe they should, maybe at one point in the near future,
 you would be more than United Nations,
 being United Minds where you'd have mind cultures
 outside of the usual geographical boundaries
 and exist in virtual spaces that have the power
 of multinationals.
 Well, I'm holding space for the idea
 that we go through waves as a civilization
 and that there are times when our planetary civilization
 is more oriented towards all pulling together
 as one united human society.
 And there are times when it's less like that
 and we're in one of those times where it's less like that
 where people are really going towards maximum divisiveness
 in order to clear the way for whatever needs to shift.
 Yes, and clearing the way we need to have protocols
 for safe and secure interactions with the other.
 Don't you think?
 Be it an alien or AI?
 Well, it helps.
 Preparing for the inevitable can maybe help it go smoother.
 I don't know if you can really predict every outcome,
 but you can--
 Well, one of the things--
 Well, prediction is a tough one because one of the things
 we experience with life and no doubt will experience
 with AGI is this weird phenomenon called emergent properties.
 Right.
 The emergent--
 Stuff you could predict.
 Yes, exactly.
 You have no idea where going to happen.
 And yet they happen now that it's emerged.
 Right.
 What do we do about it?
 I think some people feel like this current presidential election
 is like that and we've got two emergent candidates.
 One of them had to stay in office well past his expire date
 because the Democratic Party doesn't feel anybody else
 can step up and one had to--
 One surprised everybody by stepping in from the sidelines.
 If it gets weirder, that'd probably be good.
 People are predicting that something strange could happen.
 Oh, so you're in the Terrence McKenna School, huh?
 Well, I think the things are getting weirder generally speaking.
 Not only is reality stranger than you predict, it's stranger
 than you can predict.
 So why did I shy and bother, right?
 Where silly monkeys, we like to try anyway.
 Right.
 So with that in mind--
 Take a break.
 Take a break.
 OK.
 I just wanted to say one final thing on this that I acknowledge
 that the search for aliens is different than the search for AGI
 and it can only go so far that they will likely, for example,
 see AGI emerging maybe a little slowly.
 It'll converge over time because we're creating it
 while the aliens were just discovering them.
 And it could happen very quickly and suddenly.
 Oh, yeah.
 I love that is a very profound point
 that SETI was looking for a shock to human society,
 such as a spaceship landing on the White House lawn.
 And AI is something that we are creating ourselves.
 And so the internet was AI 20 years ago.
 And now AI is the emerging ability of programmed data
 to make choices for humans.
 And we want rules that preserve the freedom of humans,
 even though we've become more and more
 dependent on these systems.
 But it is a much slower--
 Different speeds of evolution.
 Yeah.
 Slow moving.
 Yeah.
 All right.
 Collaborative approach is possibly the best way forward,
 as long as we start playing, collaborate all along the way.
 We might get through this.
 OK.
 Got my vote.
 All right.
 Yeah.
 Here.
 Here, here, here on Symbiosis.
 Santa Cruz Voice.com.
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 Welcome back to the show.
 I'm just thinking of our experiences of this weekend
 in Nevada City, the beautiful wedding of Annalise and Tom.
 And of the conversation that we had at the dinner table
 after the wedding, we had people from all over the world,
 amazing beings.
 They have friends, many of them on various spiritual disciplines
 and paths.
 With that in mind, we had a table of about eight people.
 The conversation, because some were into Ram Das,
 some were into Haridas, and others,
 were Zen, and others were agnostics.
 The conversation started with, well, which
 came first in the universe?
 Which came first?
 Love or fun?
 Love or fun?
 Which came first?
 You got a vote?
 Yeah.
 We had a deep conversation on this.
 Yeah.
 We had a different--
 It was a very original thought from Dr. Future.
 Yeah, that was fun.
 Was here before love.
 And then love followed fun.
 Most of the spiritual traditions
 believed that love came first, that without love,
 the universe would not exist.
 Is it fundamental for--
 You don't hear a bunch of people around the world chanting fun?
 No.
 No, it's different.
 It's different.
 I think we'll likely find that fun
 is a fundamental force of some sort.
 Maybe not in the way that we think about forces like Newton,
 but more in the way like maybe a force that
 creates emergent properties, emergent properties,
 how things spontaneously are created
 that we couldn't anticipate from our point of view in universe.
 But from the point of fun, it was the most amazing thing to do.
 Hey, emergent properties and fun remind me
 that we have yet to tell people that they could call in
 to the show if they want to give us some live feedback.
 Which came first for you?
 Fun or love?
 831-265-5050.
 831-265-5050, if you want to talk about which
 came first, fun or love.
 Or if you thought anything else was interesting and show today.
 Yeah, we're open to.
 Or even if you just want to talk.
 831-265-5050.
 We would love to hear from you.
 Yes.
 It's a conversation.
 It's a good icebreaker, especially among people
 from various backgrounds and traditions.
 Everybody has an opinion.
 Everybody has an opinion on fun and love.
 We'll tell you.
 Hey, we already have some calls.
 OK.
 Come in.
 Are you ready?
 Well, I mean, it's a good thing.
 Come on.
 Boy, live, live and in charge.
 All right.
 Well, shall I say hello?
 Yes, absolutely.
 All right.
 We have Erin from Salinas.
 Hi, Erin.
 Welcome to the show.
 That was quick.
 Yeah, it was.
 You're quick.
 You're first in line.
 And we have other people in line.
 So it's just a good patient, everybody.
 Yeah, I'm going to put an opinion on this most important topic.
 Remind me again, because I was going
 to call real quick about something else.
 Oh, no, that's OK.
 OK, just real quick.
 Funny or love.
 Which came first, fun or love?
 You think, in terms of the evolution of schemes.
 I can't even--
 that gets too tricky because, I mean,
 you talked earlier about what is love.
 I mean, what is fun.
 And no, I know that's a problem.
 It all breaks down pretty fast, isn't it?
 And I could maybe answer this with something
 that I thought of years ago that maybe you night us all.
 I don't think anybody knows exactly how and why we're here.
 So it's kind of an interesting--
 so then, again, that's what came first.
 Any of that kind of stuff.
 Yeah, yeah.
 Too far out there, I think, to have an opinion.
 Yeah, OK.
 You're everything on that.
 You're a good scientist on my front.
 Yeah, I haven't talked to you all since way back
 at a different station.
 So if I try to call once, I don't know when you take calls.
 But I've just had this burning thought with AI.
 Everybody's all worried.
 And suddenly, you can't tell what's real.
 And I'm thinking maybe this is one of the greatest things
 I've been waiting for people not to know what's--
 you know, what's the kind of--
 So we can all take ourselves less seriously, right?
 Oh, that's--
 Question, reality.
 Yeah, what's--
 Yeah, because it's one of the biggest things
 that we kind of jump to conclusions we can't make.
 From my perspective, we don't--
 we're making guesses.
 If I had a TED talk, it would be like, people,
 these are most of the stuff we're doing, are guesses,
 and we treat them like they're gospel or science.
 And you know?
 Yes.
 That was--
 Oh, sounds big belief, too.
 Yes, that's very important to recognize that we barely
 know what we're actually saying.
 That's true.
 Yeah.
 But all words came after the original vibration that
 created all that is.
 So I first thought maybe COVID was what
 was going to be what would make everybody go,
 well, we need to step back.
 We don't know what's going on.
 But as you might know, it looks like it got worse.
 And people have all these hypothesis.
 We don't even-- we're so often our concept
 that we don't recall things, theories,
 before they're even their hypothesis.
 You know what I mean?
 Yeah, our speculation is--
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 --expectulation.
 So I thought it was COVID first.
 And now I'm thinking it's AI.
 This is a maybe--
 If it's not one thing, it's another.
 Well, do you know what?
 Because if we don't know what's real,
 that's where we should be a lot of the time.
 Do you know what I'm saying?
 Well--
 --like when there are these--
 Do you feel like not knowing what's real is a positive thing?
 Well, it will get us more in the frame of mind,
 I think, than as a positive frame of mind, where we're
 humbled, you know, where we're not so--
 we know everything.
 Yeah.
 Oh, so you're opposed to false confidence.
 You know what comes to mind, as you're saying,
 taking-- I see an image of a spiritual seeker
 at the top of the mountain, and he sees two signs pointing
 in opposite direction.
 One direction, it says, find yourself,
 the other direction, it says, lose yourself.
 [LAUGHTER]
 I would say the find yourself, people are looking for love,
 and the lose yourself, people are looking for fun.
 [LAUGHTER]
 Yeah.
 But just something to think about.
 You guys could probably deal with it more.
 No, I totally understand.
 But--
 You know, we used to do the visuals for a band,
 Techno Maui Translate Band, called Lost at Last.
 Lost at Last.
 [LAUGHTER]
 That was the band.
 And Terrence would often speak, and we do visuals
 while he spoke with the band playing.
 It was really fun.
 Aww.
 Yeah.
 So--
 Terence McKenna?
 Terence McKenna, yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yes, yes.
 I had some very crazy synchronicities happen with him.
 Did you really?
 Yeah, I was looking up him and his brother,
 who I had met his brother--
 Dennis.
 --because we have a friend, a friend over in Devon Monterrey.
 And I just one day was like, I want
 to look up something about their books.
 And I was sitting there right where I had met his brother.
 And I came across the thing about his library burning down
 twice and all this stuff.
 Yeah.
 But then I realized I had seen that fire.
 They went and stored his library above my friend's business
 in Monterrey.
 Yes.
 And I get chills talking about it,
 because I was looking it up right there,
 and it's all the brother.
 And then I suddenly I looked, and the date
 was like 10 years to the day of that fire.
 Oh.
 Oh, wow.
 Oh, wow.
 I was speaking.
 I happened to look this up.
 Yeah.
 It's entangled.
 And I'm like, I saw his books burning down,
 and I didn't even know it.
 Years ago.
 That's really interesting.
 How's that?
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Well, do you believe in coincidence?
 Well, coincide the coincide dance.
 Right.
 [LAUGHTER]
 Mimes me of Inside Out 2 was out now.
 It supposedly looks at those issues.
 A new film from Pixar.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Back to my point, I don't really believe in a lot,
 because I don't go left to believe in it.
 And that's what maybe AI will help us with.
 Well, hey, it sounds like you've
 come up with a formula that keeps you feeling free
 and optimistic and looking forward to the future.
 I think that's got to be a positive.
 Yeah.
 For sure.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 The alternative is what?
 Well, I'll tell you.
 When people do have beliefs, if those beliefs
 are nihilistic, where they just
 know that all evidence is pointing to the end of life
 as we know it, I find it very difficult to convince people
 like that that maybe they're just looking
 through their own smeary lens.
 You know?
 So I say stay open.
 Before I leave, have you guys heard about this noise,
 the book by Daniel Kahneman who just died?
 Very important to him and some other people.
 He studied bias first.
 And now it's about noise, which is all this stuff.
 It's basic errors and judgment.
 Have you heard of this stuff?
 I haven't.
 What's the-- what's your name again?
 I'm going to tell.
 Do you tell?
 Bobby, do you know?
 OK.
 So basically, I'll try to--
 it's called-- the book is called Noise and Error
 and Judgment.
 And it shows all this stuff of how we make wrong judgments
 based on all kinds of things.
 But the thing is you can do a noise audit.
 It's mathematical.
 It's a little bit beyond--
 I have to read it very slowly.
 But it's very important.
 You know, check it out.
 I will.
 What's the author's name again?
 Oh, here we have it.
 His name is Daniel Kahneman.
 Yes.
 That's K-H-N-A-N.
 Yeah, I'll just googled it.
 So we see it.
 It's on Amazon, noise, a flaw in human judgment.
 Well, thank you for bringing that to our attention.
 I would love to dive into that.
 Cool.
 All right.
 Yeah, all right.
 All right.
 Well, thanks so much.
 All right.
 Take care.
 And we have next up, very patiently waiting, Master Now.
 Hello, my friend.
 Master Now.
 How are you?
 You want to be able to--
 Button into the future again?
 Yes.
 We are here.
 Yes.
 Beaming into the future.
 Yes, beaming into the future.
 Yeah, I like that better.
 Yes, that's good.
 Oh, we needed fun.
 No.
 Ah, I see you're on the fun side of the question.
 Well, I did get some other opinions here, too.
 I would have put you in the love boat myself.
 Yes.
 Yeah.
 No, I--
 I was just testing that out.
 I think it's love because, of course, in the beginning,
 it's a deal.
 But in that field, then that strange attractor
 caused things to start coming together.
 And I think the search of that attractor is love,
 plain and simple.
 So, OK.
 You think it came before?
 You think it came before fun?
 Absolutely.
 Because until you have this attractor getting things
 together, then what fun is a judgment that is made after.
 You've gotten yourself together.
 Anyway, yeah.
 I see.
 OK.
 All right, fair enough.
 No, you can make a good case for that.
 Though some would say that love is a more complex emotion
 and that fun is more primal, more basic.
 But others might not agree.
 I don't know.
 Let's take a look about primal, about motherhood.
 I mean, I think there's some pretty phenomenal love
 going on there.
 I think it starts with when you first, as a baby,
 are getting sustenance from your mother's breast.
 And I think that love has developed that.
 And it's a dependency.
 So you wouldn't call that fun, huh?
 I don't think it's fun.
 I think it's a necessity.
 I think that love is created at that moment,
 the very first existence of getting sustenance
 from your mother.
 Well, maybe not.
 So I think that's the first thing that happens.
 And then, yes, maybe you enjoy drinking milk out
 of a bottle later, and that's fun.
 But I don't know.
 Well, I'm thinking maybe we should give you more basic.
 What about going back to cellular intelligence, for example?
 Why would all these different chemicals come together
 to create a cell or a small organism, unless it was fun?
 And how can they even experience love?
 Love is a higher emotion that mammals can experience,
 but can cellular intelligence know what love is?
 Well, we know that if you were a cell,
 you would definitely be creating your future based on fun.
 Yeah.
 I think so.
 That is your organism for the whole.
 That fun would be for a cell, it wouldn't be--
 Oh, or something would come out of a connection
 where it all becomes one, whether it's an any become one.
 That was your cell cell.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 It would be a very simple experience
 for that level of life.
 But it would nonetheless be an experience.
 Oh.
 What do you think?
 I think this future was prescient when she said,
 those who are trying to find themselves
 are going for the love and those who are trying
 to lose themselves are going for the fun.
 I thought that was prescient.
 [LAUGHTER]
 I was just being cute.
 We all meet at the signs.
 We all meet at the signs.
 Yes, we all meet at the signs.
 There you go.
 Let's go loving fun hand in hand into the future of co-creation.
 How's that?
 You're here.
 Now now.
 So there's some other hypotheses that have been up lately.
 I'm kind of curious, Massano, what you think of these.
 There's a new paper that's raising
 a lot of eyebrows in the scientific community from Harvard.
 They're looking at unidentified anomalous phenomena,
 UAPs or bureaucracy for UFOs.
 All right?
 Yeah.
 And they're thinking that there are some stuff
 that haven't been allowed to think about.
 Stuff like maybe aliens are actually living on this planet
 and have been for a long time.
 And we are just not conscious of them.
 Oh, I think they've been here all along
 and no question about it.
 And inside the planet and all of that,
 I just think that's part of the parcel of what's going on here.
 I like to just bring up the story of when Alan met my father
 for the first time, right?
 Who lives near Area 51, I might add.
 That's right.
 That's right.
 We actually, on his ranch in Nevada, met his vet
 who had some pictures from the night
 before of some cattle mutilation.
 So talking to my dad about UFOs at a time
 when the common belief in them was that it was just bunk.
 And Alan meets my father for the first time
 and my father says to him, well, if there was such a thing
 as extraterrestrial life on this planet,
 we would know about it because we've
 got a lot of people that are smart
 and they would have found it by now and we'd have evidence.
 And this was his proof that it didn't exist.
 And Alan's response was, well, what if the extraterrestrials
 didn't want you to know?
 [LAUGHTER]
 Remember Star Trek 6, where they had an anthropology
 base hidden on the side of a mountain?
 Right.
 Yeah, and visible.
 But it was so--
 what did your dad think about the Middle Ages?
 You know, I don't remember his exact response,
 but photographic evidence from his vet.
 I'm sure he was--
 I have a whole video of the vet.
 Unfounded.
 Quite impressed by the whole thing.
 The vet had never seen anything like it.
 Yeah, the vet had no explanation.
 He was mystified.
 He said he's never seen anything like it.
 He speculated and he said, the only thing
 I could see that could come close to creating
 that kind of cauterization of the blood vessels
 would be a serrated laser beam.
 Which could be reverse technology at the time.
 I mean, very well, they are not that far from Nellisser
 Force Base.
 They are not that far from Area 51.
 That part of the desert could very well
 be full of military conducting different kinds of experiments.
 It did not have to be UFOs.
 But maybe the military had discovered those UFOs,
 and that's why they had done the reverse engineering.
 So--
 But who really knows?
 So the idea that they brought up
 was an evidence of what they call crypto-terrestrials.
 OK, now we're back to this Harvard study of UFO sightings
 and what this Harvard and Montana research team is looking into.
 And crypto-terrestrials would be inhabitants
 that were less technological, but maybe might consider
 them more magical creatures.
 So that's one of their hypotheses is that--
 Yes, Earthbound Angels, if you will.
 Earthbound Angels.
 And so that would be like the Stephen Greer people
 that if you go into a meditative state,
 you can adjust your higher consciousness
 to the dimension where they actually exist,
 but otherwise they're invisible to you.
 And that's kind of the magical Earth Angels idea.
 They've been here all along.
 We're just out of phase with them.
 Though I might add that a lot of people
 who get into actualizing their understanding of self
 often come to ideas such as this, is that's who they are.
 Like a lot of people we know are consider themselves
 to be Earthbound Angels.
 Yeah, and deep meditators.
 As we expand with our consciousness,
 our physical awareness of our thought vibrations
 and the relationship of our thoughts to our body
 and the different energy states of our body,
 we can have an expanded awareness of who we are.
 And sometimes you have to go beyond the norm field
 to see the rest of the story.
 Yes, yes.
 Another part of the story is that the Harvard folks
 are thinking that an intelligent species
 may have evolved from the dinosaurs.
 That there are possibly intelligent dinosaurs.
 Reptilians.
 The reptilians.
 Yes, right.
 Yeah, I guess you could say that.
 Yeah, that's Laura Eisenhower says she saw a reptilian
 and that one of their secrets powers,
 they project into our consciousness
 a fake perception of them.
 So we see them as human, even though,
 if you look out the side of your eyes real quick,
 the actual physical form that they have
 is this old school reptilian form.
 That's what Laura Eisenhower says about that.
 And Laura is one of the persons who supposedly had access.
 And direct personal experience.
 She's a first person testimonial.
 So I take those people a little more seriously
 than the likes of us who just repeat other people's stories.
 Great granddaughter of the president.
 Yes, all you need now is a vision pro
 and you can do the same thing.
 Now people.
 And.
 Yeah.
 Was there a movie in the 80s called them?
 Something like that was where you put on these glasses
 and you'd see all the secret subliminal messages
 the aliens were programming our species with.
 Yeah.
 And they were there all along, but we just didn't see them,
 you know, until you had the special glasses.
 So the highly advanced civilizations
 could exist simultaneously with ours on this planet.
 And we wouldn't even know about it.
 That's the speculation there that might have a grand truth to it.
 Yeah, because as much as we think we're the primary apex
 species, it could be that we're just oblivious of species
 outside ourselves.
 And especially ones that know that we're quite inferior compared
 to them and they can watch us from afar,
 but we can't see them.
 Kind of like us and ants, right?
 Can you imagine ants not being aware of us just because we're
 so big and we're so far away from what they're paying attention
 to?
 Well, that's the fear also with the AIs.
 You know, that the intelligence is so vastly different
 that we are on the level of ants are to us as compared to them
 to where they'll be.
 And that's why it's important.
 Collaborate.
 Collaborate.
 Yes.
 You can.
 Well, if we can connect with the ETs,
 we definitely want it to be collaborative as opposed
 to Mars attacks or something.
 Another vote comes in here, by the way.
 Oh, OK.
 Billy Sunshine comes in.
 His fun is real.
 Love can be faked.
 [LAUGHTER]
 The world according to Billy Sunshine.
 Well, I wouldn't want to argue with that.
 He says, and also keep in mind that he also says,
 I'm a lose myself person at this point.
 Oh, at the sign.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 He's kind of like, OK.
 He's losing himself into fun.
 OK, Billy, that's good to know.
 And you're not going to fake love anymore.
 I think the great thing about AI
 is it's causing people to question everything
 that they see now.
 And hopefully, it will get them to question authority.
 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
 Yeah, I guess--
 That's my hope.
 Especially if you're an authoritarian,
 I would like it if all authoritarians
 question their own authority so that they just
 would get off our back and join the human race.
 It's like, let's have more fun together
 instead of having these people who take themselves too
 seriously insisting that everyone do what they say.
 Exactly.
 Yeah.
 So I think you should question politicians,
 because they're into demanding authority over people.
 And--
 That's power.
 So I'm so divided on this idea of authority, because--
 Authority and power.
 I really strongly believe in freedom.
 I really strongly believe in collective wisdom
 and intelligence.
 I really strongly believe in a multipolar form of governance
 on the planet that starts at the individual and bubbles up.
 But at the same time, I honor the power to solve great problems
 that comes from the organization around trusting proven
 authority.
 And that's what it comes down to.
 This trust in authority is very different than usurpers who
 insist that you do what they say.
 So that for me is so profound.
 It's the difference between having a positive spirit where
 you want to be devoted to goodness versus where you're
 being treated like a slave who doesn't have a choice.
 So I think about stuff like that.
 Hey, it's the last couple of few minutes of the show here.
 Could I make that quick announcement?
 OK, you can.
 But I just want to say, Billy says,
 I don't know that I've ever faked love, though.
 Oh, whatever.
 It's the other people that have done it, right, Billy?
 Yeah, yeah.
 Be a victim.
 I'm not sure.
 I think if you experience it, it's your reflection.
 And you can go deeper.
 OK, so what's the announcement?
 The announcement, we just got an announcement
 from Santa Cruz Voice that Santa Cruz Voice will be
 featured this Friday, June 24th at 1 PM on Think Local First.
 So she wanted people to tune in and just--
 What time?
 At 1 PM on Think Local First.
 Tomorrow?
 Yeah, yeah.
 So they want to hear from people.
 They want to hear from other hosts.
 And we're going to be talking about the benefits of having
 a radio station like this that is a reflection
 of our local community and that is made of people who live here
 and is organized sort of like a farmer's market where each of us
 is carrying our own show.
 But we're doing it together because we're
 such a diverse community and we amuse and entertain
 and inform each other so well.
 So I just wanted to call a little bit of attention to that 1 PM
 Friday.
 We'll be talking about the future of Santa Cruz Voice
 and it'll be on Think Local First.
 So--
 All right.
 All right.
 Billy qualifies.
 He says, some men fake love for sex and other things.
 Of course, there's some women fake love for money or security
 and that stuff like that.
 What?
 I want to say.
 Think of him in this way because we
 haven't spoken to him personally about this stuff.
 Yeah.
 Anyway, it's a touchy subject.
 I would have a title of--
 --of a title of response to that.
 You've got to be responsible for your own emotions.
 But hey, the show's about to end.
 We love you.
 OK, well, we'll say--
 --but we'll say--
 --but we have a given Santa Cruz Voice.
 Thank you for listening.
 I appreciate your being here.
 Thank you, Master Now.
 Thank you, Master Now.
 Thank you, still there?
 Well, his line went out, but--
 Oh, OK.
 Oh, so great to have you all there listening
 and following that.
 Appreciate it.
 Yeah, thanks, everybody, who called in.
 Thanks, Santa Cruz Voice for holding us all together
 and have a great future now, everybody.
 All right.
 Great week, too.
 Bye, bye.
 Bye, bye.
 Well, right by.