kids what time is that? the future is coming on it's coming on it's coming on it's coming yeah okay
 and here we are back into the future again this time it's a sunny day in bollock creek and beautiful
 day mrs future is sitting here at the control right now watching our stream time go out there and
 bobby is in san francisco hey bobby yeah it's a beautiful day don't be shy beautiful day in the
 neighborhood down there okay you can lift your levels up at least one hole decibel yeah we don't
 want you to be blown out by taylor who's also on the line taylor taylor barcroft our apple
 correspondancy you can call me tae tae okay and what call you tae today okay sounds good
 and of course the fact that taylor is with us tells the world that there's been an apple
 announcement that's right that's right a live thriving update on what's cool and what's worth
 knowing that apple is shaking up the computer world by releasing the m4 ipad pro today that's
 what i heard they did the unthinkable with that yeah l just bought an m2 max studio in january
 that's what you're hearing us on and now it's going to be obselyed by an m4 max studio oh how
 obsolete will we be are we just going to be in the dust or is it something that only
 attacking us no you won't be in the dust but it will be quite a bit faster okay that's the big
 news we're going to do the apple news first since taylor is here and he probably wants to get
 to sleep fairly soon after disease but no no i don't i got all the sleep i needed two hours and 20
 minutes okay all right as calibrated by my ring con so what you have to look forward to
 after our tailors is our future news with bobby and mrs future and then we have an interview with
 abby esner from england abby ester ester and she is a psychedelic therapist who works with amanita
 mascara which is a the famous mushroom that santa claus plays with yes the famous red one with the
 red-shapped mushroom with polka dots is called an amanita muscada the archetype the archetypal
 mushroom it was considered poisoned by many but in lower doses apparently it is quite therapeutic
 and we're going to hear all about that and it's legal it's legal so here you go we've got the tech
 frontier and we've got the mushroom frontier and of course we'll be looking up at the sky and
 thinking about the future so yeah let's go all right the m4 chip this is their latest chip and
 they surprised everyone by putting it in the ipads right taylor right well the reason that
 they had to put it in the ipad is because the m3 is a dud as you recall when we were talking
 last fall about the m3 when the m3 mac prose came out i'm pretty sure i said on the air skipped the
 m3 but i'm not positive yeah i think you did why i said it off here why is it a dud why was m3
 was dud because it was manufactured in a process that is a dead end none of the other manufacturers
 of processors used the way that apple made the m3 processor and it also has an architectural
 problem that the m1 m2 and m3 have that's a security risk yeah i've heard about that bobbie was
 telling us about that the other day bobbie knows all about that he can elaborate on that
 okay what it is is there's a hash and they were using in the m1 m2 and m3 and they would cache
 some of your passwords there was a way to trick the cache to leak out your apple id password
 which would be a catastrophe and so this was there is a way in the m3 not the m1 and 2 but
 in m3 to have a software to turn it off but then the outcome of that is your m3 is running about
 50 percent the speed it used to run without this accelerated cache so al you and i are up uh s creek
 with leaky caches because we have the m1 ipad pros and we have the m2 you have the m2 max i have
 the m2 pro mac mini and you have the m2 mac's mac studios so what does this mean you're just
 leaving unused storage space all over the place and it's wasting your bandwidth and your
 memory and all that what do you mean leaky cache it's the cache area it's not the memory but it's
 the cache uh-huh so they're just using it very efficiently we want to make sure that the viewers
 are going to go to the youtube and find all the m4 ipad pro videos to watch so that they can study
 the differences and everything because we don't have time to talk about everything about it there is
 a new ipad pencil pro apple pencil pro that's only compatible with the new m4 ipad pro
 which has dual oled screens on both the 11 and the 13 inch models and the base storage is now 128
 but you can also get it in 256 512 1 terabyte and 2 terabyte versions a 10 core cpu and a
 six core performance and four core efficiency cores but you get a crippled processor if you get 128
 256 or 512 gig of RAM and you only get 8 gig of storage unless you get the one or two terabyte
 versions and then you get 16 gig of storage which is the same as the m1 and m2 processors so the
 bottom line is wait to the m4 if you're about to buy an ipad right yeah no wait for the m4 if
 you're about to buy anything any ac really because of these security issues that are on the m12
 well also because of the speed and the m4 is better designed for artificial intelligence
 which is the future it's got a souped up neural engine it's still only a 16 cores but it's a much
 better neural engine don't ask me why because i don't understand it but i know that for a fact
 that they're going to claim that it's a much better artificial intelligence processor yeah they
 also say that the new ipad pro can deliver the same performance as a thin light pc with a quarter
 of the power right that's no small part of it if you watch the apple presentation you get a
 little bit of information but if you watch all the analysts they give you the more gory details
 now it's a big deal with that neural engine then it can deliver it yeah it's because it's related
 to artificial intelligence right and they're supposed to be a new generation series that relies on
 artificial intelligence more than before my understanding is that it's 60 times faster
 than their first neural engine which is more powerful than any aipc currently available
 i mean in the m4 or even the m4 in the m4 the m16 core versus the m1 you mean yes i see cool
 pretty amazing it is amazing i spread around the video of the apple video and i shared it in
 dr tams community bulletin board and the people didn't understand why i posted it
 because they're not as geeky as you that's right they said is this something that we should avoid
 or would you please explain why you posted that video that what did you tell them i said i said
 it's a historical moment in the history of personal computing that will go down in history may 7th
 2024 will go down in history as a major turning point in the history of personal computing
 yeah you still see the introduction to this processor is is the biggest thing that's happened
 since the m1 processor was originally introduced yeah and you still hold by that huh even now that
 you're absolutely are you kidding i'm okay i'm extremely excited about it even though i'm not
 gonna buy one because you just you just been afford to know the m1 i did i spent $2400 on this m1
 loaded to remember two terabytes right i remember that yeah the full button now it's been the same
 amount of money for an m4 if i but i probably could only i'd be lucky if i get a thousand
 uh five hundred bucks for this old uh m1 i paid pro even though it's two terabytes maybe i could
 get one i don't know maybe get i don't know what i could get because i never sell these things i
 keep them i buy the next one and i put the old one on the shelf yeah i don't even try to sell them
 well that's just your nature what can i say but when are we gonna see the m4 macbooks when are
 they gonna go you know that's not gonna happen till the fall probably okay because the m3 macbooks
 only just came out last fall so it's gonna be the reverse rollout the rollout's opposite of what
 it's been in the past because of apple wanting to go to the m4 now apple's not good they're not
 saying why they're going to the m4 right away they're saying oh we need more power or something
 like that but that's not the real reason is because of these architectural flaws in the m1 two and three
 processors and that's what the analysts are saying but they yeah well think about it nobody's gonna buy
 an m3 m2 or m3 mac now that the m4 is in the ipad pro nobody's gonna the sales of the m2 and m3
 macs is gonna drop like a rock they're gonna have to definitely go with a new mac mini because that's
 gonna be a half i have to tell you as a user of both i think they have very different utilities because
 when you just have to do all of your work on a screen that's the size of an ipad you're gonna
 enjoy watching you're gonna enjoy communicating but you're not going to enjoy multitasking and
 you're not going to enjoy editing and you're not going to enjoy things where you need to have a lot
 of information arrayed around a bigger screen and even if you use it as a display the gesture
 interface sometimes is not what you want to be using so it really comes down to what your
 purpose is whether or not it's going to replace the laptop or not well i'm talking about the m4
 processor in general i'm talking about m4s for macs oh okay yeah and it's logical for apple to put
 the m4 and the m4 pro in a new mac mini and it's logical for them to put the m4 macs and the m4
 ultra in a new mac studio because they're all dated back to last year in fact the the minis all the
 way back to the beginning of last year so that's we're they're gonna lead with the desktops in other
 words and then the last ones will be the laptops they're not called laptops they're called notebooks
 i'm sorry it's illegal for them to go if they call them laptops then everybody gets cancer and
 apple gets blamed so they're not laptops they're notebooks that's the term huh yeah but you can
 but you know the other thing is price you can get an m1 walmart is now selling m1 macbook errors for
 650 dollars holy moly so there's an incredible price thing going on yeah apple's still making m1
 ipad errors for walmart to sell exclusively i'll tell you i have an m1 ipad and it's great it's still
 fast enough for everything that i do oh absolutely no me too i'm in all i do is this face time and
 mainly just face time on the on the thing and i'm gonna buy new phones every fall and i'm probably
 gonna buy the apple watch 10 it seemed like they added some new features to the pencil like you
 can squeeze it and that's gonna create a whole new way of interfacing with your graphics programs
 with your pencil yeah so we'll see how it takes people who use stylus are very yeah also remember
 they've got new software a new version of Final Cut Pro new version they featured procreate which
 is kind of a photoshop program and logic too and there's also a new camera app for ipad pro
 so that you can run four phone cameras iPhone cameras into one ipad pro and i'm not sure if
 that's limited to the m4 ipad pro or not yeah i saw that day you'll be able to have four
 i-pads and that's right of your alley yeah i know al you love that kind of deal yeah yes you just
 get your squad together right your three camera shoot with three cameras the swarm thing right
 like the old tonight show when you were on this doing this form right right it's the yes so now you
 can do it with uh what's that billy uh billy idol idol right on the uh tonight show with billy idols
 sort of right great moment say that's an anecdote media history i don't know el goes that far back
 that's the that was the original that was the jake part tonight show right or no no that was
 the first year of j lenno oh is j lenno okay yeah first year j it was his most popular show
 since he'd taken over from johnnie yeah and you can see it it's on youtube it's on vimeo
 point is that there is some really interesting software things yeah coming along with the camera
 shoot for pro camera shoots in real time yeah yeah it shows you four of the picture on the ipad
 pro like right now we have a two-up picture going on on our ipads yeah no i haven't seen a two live
 iPhones on my ipad yet i know wouldn't it be cool and you might be able to get all four even with
 an m1 we don't know it's it's a software thing so it's going to probably come down to some analysts
 doing a test or reviewing it or something like that yeah exactly but it's called final cut camera
 is what the eps going to be called final cut camera which is going to be required to own final cut
 pro to download it or not big reveals probably by ww dc will know all these things yeah a lot more
 will be on the show on june 11th talking about the june 10th presentation monday june 10th at the
 ww dc that's the next big that's just over a month look forward to that and we'll look for the
 report on that anything else on this before we move on to other topics just everybody check out
 the youtube videos as they unfurl okay let's see there was one other thing oh yeah there's a new
 keyboard for the ipad pro there's a 12 inch ipad air 13 inch rather ipad air it's only m2 processor
 the new pro pencil mrs. feature you were looking at the pencil when we were playing with it this
 morning is the pencil pro compatible with the air is i don't know is it bobby saying yes we're
 hearing out the other in one area okay it is it is but the pencil too is not compatible with the
 ipad pro really yeah you got to buy a new pencil pencil pro because of the magnets you know they
 move the magnets because of the oh the camera remember the cameras are now in the landscape mode on
 both the new air and the new ipad pro so but for our purposes they lowered the price of the 10th
 edition of the ipad so that's now 350 so when it goes to 299 we should scoop those up so we can
 have a landscape camera ale okay well but inexpensive multi-camera capabilities with our ipad we'll
 have a whole stupid i don't know i don't think you have multi-camera on the original on the 10th
 generation ipad but you'll have a landscape camera oh okay and it might be too it should go on sale
 for 299 pretty soon oh because it's that they lowered the price to two three 49 wow it was higher
 yeah what was it three ninety nine or three yeah the low end i had yeah something so that's the rest
 of the story okay so far so we'll try to catch up next oh yeah and then one other thing how has
 the apple vision probe been doing every the apple world have you heard much about that i heard that
 apple cut back on production because it's not very popular okay yeah i've heard that too you're
 going to give us plenty of time on june 11th right l oh yeah yeah we'll spend lots of time on apple
 it's there's gonna be talking about the new ios 18 and the yeah the universe for the iPhone 16
 right yeah there's a lot coming down the ipad os 18 and so forth and so on yeah you have more time
 you have more time okay thank you you're just i'm i'm hard closing you there on that go on here i'm
 doing yeah i know and the hard i'm here close spare time i didn't say much more time the other
 but more thank you you're welcome all right so should we cut to a break you ready for that yeah
 yeah you guys are great i love taylor swift by the way oh that's right taylor's a new album
 i'm i am a real swiftly now i listen to her music all the time i'm no kidding i heard new album is
 fantastic you love it huh i can't get enough of it it's every every cut you see i think i'm going to
 repeat the cut and then i just and she starts the next one and just as good as the one i just listen
 yeah yeah okay all right every track on that the anthology 31 tracks they're all fantastic
 well thanks for that download what's the name of the album it's called the tortured poets department
 tortured to poets department abbreviated as t t p d all right true fan testimony all right thanks
 everybody thanks thanks taylor here's a little bit from santa kris whiz
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 welcome back to the show do you either you missus future or bobby have any missing teeth
 well that's around the personal question yes actually i do i have a missing tooth
 are you bobby yeah they took out like one two three four i think they took out like eight teeth i
 don't know just straighten out my teeth man wow and then a filling came out and i was eating pop
 corn and i bit down on one of those kernels that wasn't popped and cracked my tooth down
 oh hey that happens yeah and yeah i'm missing more teeth than most and then yeah i'm missing a
 couple myself i think it's pretty normal yeah i think that's uh pretty much how dentists handle
 your aging teeth is they yank them out and try and put in something to hold the space so you can
 imagine how excited i was to read this week that there's a new experimental test bed going on with
 the idea of growing new teeth oh wow yeah every dentist dream definitely that's great and also
 the dream of people who would like to replace their missing teeth they right right yeah never
 mind the people who get them right yeah yeah so japanese scientists are set to kick off the world's
 first clinical trials of a tooth regrowth medicine wow the kyoto university hospital
 they're planning to enroll patients who were born missing some or all of their teeth
 really oh that's where you wanted to fly the odds those are really tough situation when you're
 born with congenital and an adancia and an adancia means missing teeth you're right for the trials
 and the patients will receive an antibody treatment that deactivates a protein that's called usag one
 and that's believed to stop toothbuds which most people have from developing into either baby or
 permanent teeth now people with the condition conventionally go to get implants or dentures
 but this treatment could provide a third option the team is hoping to treat those who are like us
 who are simply missing teeth due to cavities or popcorn kernels right
 that's fascinating interesting yeah there's a phase one trial uh-huh right it's starting
 september i see that they tested treatments in 2018 with the animals uh-huh yeah and the ferrets
 grew their teeth back that's right they started with ferrets for some reason because
 because parents have teeth similar to ours tooth buds are similar to ours yeah yeah yeah well
 the first trial would involve 30 healthy male adult participants who were missing at least
 one back tooth well i want to hear more about this as the results come in i wonder how long it
 takes to grow them well yeah good question is it a full is it like a kid takes a full year at three
 years i'll be able to match everything there's a certain amount of time for to grow right yeah well
 that's totally fascinating we're going to comment from the peanut gallery here on the whole you know
 what is the peanut gallery saying or the chew and on peanuts hey yeah well popcorn
 greg says unfortunately you have to be japanese to help your teeth fixed
 yes well hey bobby i'll be your half japanese you know maybe you can qualify maybe they'll fix half
 a tooth for you the japan she just got back and i haven't talked her since she got back but i tried
 to get her involved and in contact with the researchers there in kyoto and she was the
 kyoto so next week i'll report back and tell you awesome it's really interesting because all it
 takes is an injection of these antibodies in the what's called root bud and you can grow a third
 row of teeth what happens is after after your baby teeth are gone and you grow your second row
 of adult teeth you so bobby let's do recap you were familiar about these japanese scientists attempting
 to regrow new teeth i had recently seen my dentist about my lost tooth right and i told her about
 this research in kyoto and she happened to be going there on vacation to see kyoto and osaka and japan
 and i said well once you're there just try to look up kyoto university and then there's this doctor
 actually that the researcher that found this information about how to produce antibodies that
 block the usag one protein what's very interesting is yet anybody it doesn't matter how old you are
 you can grow a third row of teeth if you can just block this protein right i heard that in irv
 that they have that treatment but i've never heard of any other culture researching it yeah
 there's other research around in northern japan that was doing stem cells which is a different
 approach to do the same thing but this is even a simpler approach where you don't have to use
 your own stem cells you just inject this it's a one-time injection of these antibodies into the root
 bud in your jaw i wonder if you're all of your teeth fall out at once just like when you're a kid
 and you think you lose your old teeth and how does it know that filling the just the ones that
 you're missing well usually there's a space there's a bud at the root of your teeth yeah it's like a
 plant it has it has a place like where ranches out and becomes a tooth what they're doing is the
 30 people the 30 adults these are people that are genetically born without teeth missing in part
 the right and so they're going to see if they can activate the tooth bud even though for some reason
 these people didn't have that experience already that's right yeah for some reason their bodies or
 genetic makeup told them to produce this usag one protein early on in their lives both of teeth
 all right well i'm sure we're going to have a lot of people tracking that one we all we all love
 our teeth we do i have so many friends that have been trying to find the biological dentists who
 will retrain your teeth and put crowns on them instead of root canals and work with living teeth
 instead of dead teeth so this is really great it's moving in the right direction yeah
 ais are being used to talk to sperm whales they have discovered an alphabet thanks to machine
 learning algorithms a whale alphabet a whale alphabet yeah what do whales spell to each other
 it deals with what they call codas c-o-d-a-s oh and those are a series of clicks that seem to
 serve different linguistic functions there's a previously undescribed variation in the codus
 structure that's been discovered in a combinatoric coding system some kind of language if you will
 okay so they've identified a pattern yeah but have they translated the words
 i don't think so um but moving in the right direction it's sort of like recognizing the music
 we've got the beat you know this song yep yeah well these are particularly chatty c mammals
 and so far they've noted about 150 different sperm whale codas wow fascinating and they think
 the information is about caller identity and about their clan identity oh caller identity
 yeah caller identity um caller identity hello this is whale number there's a swarm of anchovies over
 to the left of our clan about a hundred miles i guess i don't use miles right yeah okay
 it's for distance i don't know i guess they'll find this thing this is a whale member
 troy reporting to the pod yeah follow me to anchovy everything about the sperm whale
 communication including basic questions about information carrying capacity how much information
 they convey it's still unknown it's still a brand new area in which they are exploring
 oh now these sperm whales are going to have a certain accent because this data was collected
 off the eastern caribbean island of dominica dominica
 yeah it's based on the work of roger pain a pioneering marine biologist who passed away last
 june and he mostly worked with humpbacks and looking at the songs of humpbacks
 and he inspired a lot of scientists to have a deeper understanding of whales
 so i was exposed to uh john lily's work back in the 70s whose way caught traversal in his
 mostly his work with dolphins but whales were certainly one of his vocae as well
 as a matter of fact we had the first computer that he used in analyzing this information
 when you say we you mean at the digi barn computer museum old degree digi barn museum yeah
 yeah it was a working link computer made back in the early 60s by linken labs part of mit
 one of the originally there were 12 of these link computers one of them went to john lily
 wow study that stuff early on most of us are interested in decoding our pets like dogs and cats
 yes my name is dog i have just met you and i love you my master made me his collar
 he is a good and smart master and he made me this collar so that i may talk squirrel
 yes i remember the fascination that i had for that decoder the movie up by pixar
 dud the dog it's a little computer out i think it's right on the verge of us really having
 little animal translators for us to pay attention to it's just what we need right
 there are dogs and cats demanding stuff from us in english
 with the machine learning they are beginning to look at a richer picture in understanding
 the exchanges between whales they may even have for example a kind of music that they share with
 each other that involves tempo and rhythm and ribato and they hope to isolate the actual
 phonetic alphabet from the sperm whale and that would make it possible to observe and hear all
 the things that are said in the coda structure it's possible that the first instance outside of a
 human language where communication of a linguistic concept of patterning information is perceived
 it would be like combining syllables into words and us being able to understand how they do that
 or what their syllables are so it's still early on in the game and the fact that the ai's beginning
 to tease out these patterns is exciting for all those researchers in in cetacean communication
 well it would certainly be overwhelming without the help of ai right to turn those clicks into
 recognition of a language yeah like we were talking last week about how it would be really
 helpful if we could let whales know that they're about to enter a shipping lane i'm sure the whales
 know if they're about to enter a shipping lane well i don't know why i mean it killed ships make a
 lot of noise they do but they do have um tell my dog stop interrupting me i'm like humans first
 dog should be seen and not heard you're really thinking ahead here we start thinking of our
 animals like kids you know where we're you have to teach them manners they might go crazy with
 the communications you know this is where the show goes a little sci-fi al have you ever
 known a dog to have good manners yes yes i have mr. future there are good dogs and there are bad
 dogs oh okay yes and any i think people didn't we hear about some governor that shot their dog
 recently for being bad oh no really yeah yeah that what's been all over the news the south
 Dakota governor they think that the fact that she shot her dog is going to ruin her chances for
 being vice president with drag says christine gnome i guess yeah shot her dog in the face oh right
 right yeah that's just is what we want
 probably i really love that article on how we can make air conditioners 33 percent more efficient
 that's a revolutionary idea energy consumption of air conditioners it would revolutionize the
 world as far as creating it's a heat pump and so not only can it generate heat but it can also
 generate cold also but it doesn't use a compressor in the same fashion we've been using before it
 uses electromagnets and it has a pump that moves side by side in that way the problem with a
 regular compressor is when you first turn it on you get huge surge like five times more energy
 just to get that first turn on that compressor yeah that wrecks havoc on a generator if you're
 trying to run it off i'm sure you've experienced it like when the refrigerators or freezers kick
 in when you put right they just shut down your generator because they yeah it takes it off on
 right they can't handle that this device does not have that drawback at all and it's 30 35 to 38
 percent more efficient in using less energy and it's much more efficient for a compressor it's
 much more efficient in a compressor situation we won't see that really soon you're going to see
 this in big industrial situations they're going to use this technology first but eventually it'll
 trickle down to our air conditioners and refrigerators personal ones i often wonder when i met at
 Costco what kind of a kick that giant refrigeration room is that i was all the eggs milk and the other
 one with all the vegetables well that might that those huge rooms that are kept at air at 42 degrees
 or less they must use a lot of power they're using compressors to take heat and cold and just
 moving the heat from one section of the store to the other actually they don't lose that much
 energy it's just a bunch of fans going over these coils and it's just redirecting and moving heat
 and cold in one space to another so it's much more efficient than you think well no that's good to
 know okay so who's making this technology meat tree or something it's a small startup it's not a
 big company like carrier or anything like that no but they did explain how carrier came up with this
 in the video which was very interesting carrier came up with and related technology accident this
 guy in the 1920s was trying to cool he just had some coils and some fluid going through some coils
 and a fan across of it and he realized that yeah he could actually the people inside the room were
 a little bit cooler after they had this device running and so later he spent you know almost 20
 years and perfected that and so the carrier created this air conditioning type situation
 and refrigerators came about after World War II well well it certainly changed the world
 those conventions speaking of a technology that changes the world the steam engine was
 obsoleated by the diesel engine interestingly enough especially with trains and the latest thing is
 that there is a new kind of modified diesel engine that is now running on hydrogen this ability to
 combust hydrogen directly in the cylinders is being developed by big diesel manufacturing like
 comings these hydrogen engines have as much power as a diesel engine and are able to run
 essentially on hydrogen it's injected directly into the combustion chamber then which is then
 compressed and ignited by spark just like a gasoline engine they're getting the hydrogen from water
 from electrolysis yeah yeah and it uses solar farms that create the hydrogen this requires
 some adaptations of course to the whole fuel injection system in the ignition timing and the
 even the combustion chamber design and the cooling systems though are the same interestingly enough
 and engineers have optimized the hydrogen engines if output and efficiency and comings for example
 is looking at releasing this as a commercial engine for trucks where they run on hydrogen
 well i can see you have these heavy-duty excavator machines land moving equipment
 that's literally working 12 15 hours a day sometimes and batteries just can't keep up with that kind
 of load while diesel engines are especially designed for that kind of heavy-duty workload
 and now these hydrogen engines will be able to directly compete with the diesel technology
 without all the pollution they stay clean they don't have all the hydrocarbon muck that happens
 around internal combustion engines that run on diesel how come they're not just in use everywhere
 oh they are they'll be they're being designed right now right yeah and we have an interesting
 article on that on econews up on our drfutur show.com/linkswebpage the one that master now sent us
 yes yeah master now right master now was pointing out how this 400 horsepower and extended range
 wow really powerful engine yeah there's an Austrian company there's a British company
 an American company is all of all the AVL is the Austrian automotive engineering company that's
 developed this innovative hydrogen combustion engine no and it's it's clean it's it's got a
 an increased compression ratio and that takes advantage of the hydrogen's higher auto ignition
 temperature and the engine is still an internal combustion engine but it's been redesigned to
 withstand the higher temperatures and pressures of hydrogen combustion because you're blowing up
 hydrogen the simplest element in the universe instead of complicated hydrocarbons and they're able to
 use aluminum and titanium to offset the lower energy density of hydrogen fuel lightweight making
 the vehicles still lighter and not an invention we see every day that's 400 horsepower hydrogen
 engine and it's set to revolutionize the roads the thing they have to figure out though is
 that are these hydrogen engines going to work in tough environments like the icy
 environments in Alaska when the water freezes how are you going to get the hydrogen out yeah well
 it's difficult more difficult but it leaves electric cars far behind in terms of the
 load that they can handle and how far they can go on their rechargeability okay well
 promises promises yeah right yeah it's pretty cool all right
 [Music]
 okay welcome back to the show our guest in this segment is an old school medicine woman
 Avi Essner in jolly old england Avi began learning to facilitate altered states of consciousness
 in 2010 with shamanic tantric practitioner training and she followed that with birth into
 being facilitation in 2011 and then she ran transformative workshops using breath and movement
 to induce trans and trained other practitioners to do that as well until about 2017
 she had used these healing skills and knowledge to help prepare women and their partners for child
 birth assisting as a doula for women in labor then interestingly she began facilitating
 mushroom ceremonies in 2017 by request from a group who witnessed her powerful facilitation skills
 this type of facilitation helped create a more of a calm centered state which is more of a
 natural child birth space psychedelic sacred rite of passage since then she's guided many journeys
 for people with or without substances and she's researched chemistry and the biology of mechanisms
 behind the chemistry of mushrooms and searched out myths and stories about the old world and how
 this has been used through the ages then listened to the motifs of sacraments including and especially
 of late amanita muscaria and its medicinal allies she understands how to honor the
 ancients of the land who worked with these in theogens alongside the science and ethical practices
 and she's integrating these into her therapeutic practice and looking at how individuals and groups
 can be supported by their relationship with amanita and nature as a whole welcome abi to the show
 thank you thank you for having me here yeah i might mention that we had a chance to meet you in person
 about two weeks ago when you were in sanicress for a little bit we knew billy sunshine quite well
 and had a chance to meet you thanks to a little dinner party at our beach house oh yeah and billy
 actually holds us responsible for that meeting with you because we happen to be the ones who
 introduced him to clubhouse in the first place and he's really turned that into a great place for
 meeting people oh wow that's all very beautifully cyclic cyclic i can't come to get cycled out
 cyclic and synchronic yeah so there we go a little combination there so you were here for
 what was called the discovery sessions could you tell our audience a little bit about
 what you were here to talk about sure i flew out to california from the uk to speak on a panel about
 amanita muscaria and really the intention behind that was to not only go into why it's a bit of both
 a stigma and an icon but to really begin to make headway within the psychedelic community to take
 this mushroom seriously because i find that often in conversation the focus is on psilocybin and or
 lsd and or ketamine etc and that amanita muscaria is actually sort of poo poo like as like a fad
 which is very funny to me because it's actually an older mushroom and has been used in tandem and
 alongside psilocybin and many other entheogenic herbs and medicinal herbs as both a daily boost
 especially in the northern climates where the sun does not come out so much for about three
 four months out of the year and there's a lot of hard work to do it really helps to fortify those
 people this mushroom has been used we anthropologically been able to find evidence of its use 10,000
 plus years now these are the mushrooms that are are red with white spots on them yeah i would say
 these are the cliche cartoon version of any psychedelic mushroom very decorative mushroom
 is the amanita muscaria it's the icon it's a little icon on our phones yeah it's every christmas you
 see them it's the mario mushroom associate with sanichloss underland mushroom yeah so any time there is
 there's this fantasy scene in any of our literature it's the amanita muscaria and i think that if we
 were to look at all of our forgotten histories because of conquering we will be able to see a
 continuity of that which remains important to us following along even if we've forgotten the origin
 of why it's important well it seems to be present all over the world it's not unique to just one
 ecosystem and it's not illegal either right it's an interesting one um so it's northern hemisphere
 although in recent decades it has been seen in the southern hemispheres because of the the way that
 they take trees and move the trees down like for ornaments and people's gardens so it has begun
 appearing in the southern hemisphere but it's predominantly in northern hemisphere mushroom
 the whole of the northern hemisphere and it was the second question the legality of it can you
 tell us a little bit about that? oh the legality yeah so it's legal most places but not all places so
 like for example louisiana it's illegal everywhere else it's legal the netherlands has made it illegal
 australia has made it illegal and i think israel has just put moosimal onto its prohibited list which
 would then include amanita muscaria but i'm telling you for nothing the the guards at customs they don't
 know what they're looking at and they're like that's not you know they're just confusing to them so
 they just let it pass no you use the word mucinal could you describe mucinal and that's the active
 ingredients in the mushroom or the backs of chemical yeah so the two main active alkyloids
 in amanita muscaria are moosimal and ibatenic acid and ibatenic acid decarboxylates through ph
 they're heat or through acids into moosimal uh-huh and it has an effect on the gabber receptors
 minor standing the gabber and the acetylcholine and so the muscarenic acetylcholine receptors
 neurotransmitters and the gabber receptors and that's significantly different than
 psilocybin correct so all trip to means like psilocybin lsd they work on the phi vt or the serotonin
 and dopamine receptors and so it's a completely different neurotransmitter and protein pathway
 from gabber and acetylcholine uh-huh and this affects the central nervous system so it can affect
 the central nervous system the parasympathetic so gabber receptors affects things like sweat
 salivating temperature control kind of goes along with sweat it's actually also when you look at
 your ACC so that's the area that connects your limbic in your cortex it's the area that controls
 your executive function your balance it's where the majority of the receptors that are affected by
 alcohol and bermidulates are located there's a lot of crossover between legal substances and
 the effects of this mushroom although this mushroom the way that affects the neurotransmitters are not
 depressive meaning when you take alcohol or a bermiduate you get a depressive effect on the
 system whereas eminative muscariac can go either way because it's an agonist which just means it
 activates the neurotransmitter instead of making it go one way or the other what i've seen online
 is that it mostly talks about having a calm effect on the nervous system but you're saying i mean
 only the most small part so i'm a tinnock acid has an excitatory effect so there's a wonderful book
 written by kevin fini called flyogaric which is the common name for eminative muscariac a compendium
 of history pharmacology mythology and exploration and there's a wonderful paper in there written by
 mark mark can remember his last name it's a rubbish of me but anyway he goes into him and carl go into
 eminie muscaria being one if not the main ingredient in what the berserkers used for their incredible
 strength and ability to be such fierce and vicious warriors because i've attended acid
 when you're like when you're up on a botanic acid like you are up you have a string
 ten men and you can walk 20 miles and you could so walk more and there's like this like oh my god
 everything's amazing let's do this huh yes let's do that i am a king i am a god
 who's that kind of super up aspect of the atetanic acid part uh that let's say so that would be more
 what the berserkers would be into if yeah so you could prepare a concoction in combination
 with other plants that grow indigenously across europe that contain adrenaline spiking or
 steroids cortisol i could be anything that yeah not just cortisol but the stimulants
 so like for and said it means that was the word i was looking for thank you so
 when you were here at the discovery sessions what would you consider some of your best takeaways
 from that session here in san francisco oh so my favorite thing about that experience
 was actually the panel that i was a part of i very much inspired the panel and then
 felt like i was the glue like i really sort of rallied everyone and got them excited and
 inspired and as we began to have conversations about what we wanted to present and what we found
 was that there was this very interesting cohesiveness and that cohesiveness just grew and grew and it
 was such a phenomenal experience of four individuals who are completely different and actually work
 with this mushroom in different ways all being in agreement all getting along all yes anding
 each other and it felt like we were the embodiment of the variation and unified difference that this
 mushroom brings into harmony with an individual and within the collective and the panel just to be
 clear was focused exclusively on the amanita muscaria or was it more generalized subject oh no so it was
 amanita muscaria as destigmatizing well that was actually the title destigmatizing amanita muscaria
 and so we talked about again why we believe there's a stigma around it why it's so iconic
 and health like basic dosing parameters what it can be used for because you have this up part but
 then you also have this sleepy part so when you decarpoxillate it or when you take it in the
 evening when your biochemistry is ready to sleep and ready to convert serotonin into melatonin
 then it can help with those systems so you can take it in the morning and have your up or you
 can take it in the evening that will help you sleep within sort of 60 to 90 minutes beautifully
 and it's the same preparation yeah do people use it for experiencing states of euphoria
 in thresholding amounts and i would say low dose journeys which we're talking sort of
 eight grams and under and that's like that's a generous eight grams so okay there's some
 there's a caveat with this mushroom because it a bit like the different strains of psilocybe
 can't say oh yeah big dose of psilocybe is three grams i'm not a big dose or sort of normal journey
 dose is three to five grams because if you were to have three to five grams of penis envy that
 would be completely different from three to five grams of like golden teacher so eminita
 muscariate even being the same mushroom not different strains but the same mushroom has similar kinds
 of factors like what time of year was picked what soil or forest it was growing in how long it's been
 dried has it been dried and kept in a sealed air-proof container so all of these things are different
 factors that contribute strength yeah exactly yeah so and when i speak about grams and dosing
 i'm speaking about dried gram weight which is very very very very different from fresh weight yeah
 yeah yeah yeah you know i've noticed that there has been a number of online sites now that are
 offering for sale dried eminita there's also micro drops and such for the uninitiate what
 products are coming out around aminita right now and or any that you think are particularly good
 so you've been able to buy eminita caps for as long as i've known about eminita which is what
 seven years now wow they've been around they're just more up until the past sort of year and i
 have two years it's been more localized so you'd have to contact the foragers in mcciwania or
 Siberia or wherever for those kind of so there's been an eminita muscariate community for a long
 time i see so it's pretty apparent online then yeah there's been this boost so with the whole
 decriminalization movement in the states and wanting to have legal mushrooms and then people
 realizing that eminita muscariate is considered an enthijen even though it's a delirient and
 a dissociative at different doses yeah it's legal and so they've been using it and making
 all sorts of stupid weird products from it and some of them are rubbish and some of them have
 stuff in there that's not even eminita muscariate and it's the wild west of silliness yes how do you
 how do you sort through that then what would you what do you recommend to people who are
 curious or are interested so what i would say is one look at the website if it looks like it's one
 of those by any drug websites maybe pick a different website i know Andrea over at
 michael drops and she's got some great products she sells like a stock with it
 which is quite nice and when you're ordering caps you can't go too far wrong with that because
 you're ordering basically a raw material and you're looking at things like how it was dried and
 all of these factors but then if you just get the caps it's like how are you going to prepare it and
 are you red up on those places to turn to to know how to prepare it and then there's a whole variety
 of answers and what i say and my way which suits me and the the clients that i work with
 isn't the way that other people do it and i can give like a really quick example of
 sure yeah i'll share so i call my way the way of the nibble because i think the nibble okay
 yeah it's it's a book that i'm writing that goes more into the depth of practice and connection
 and is about your personal relationship with this and other enthogens as the premise in my mind is
 that these are very ancient spirits who really embody that the flesh really embodies symbiotic
 relationship because that's how they grow in the forest they're actually my horizons on mushrooms
 which means they only grow with trees and they don't break the skin of the roots they they grow
 next to it and almost like hold hands with the roots and then they give of their overflow and the
 tree gives of its overflow of sugars and there's this healthy union which is made which makes the
 whole forest healthier and that's how they work with us and they're very ancient they're older than
 psilocybin according to the ethno botanist researchers and symbiosis symbiosis symbiosis
 they are the flesh of symbiosis they teach us symbiosis in the process i do believe so and so
 with such ancient ancestors who came before us i feel like the first place of meeting is in your
 mouth and to take a small amount just enabled and to very slowly chew it and allow your saliva
 to mix with the flesh of this mushroom and really taste it and really feel what you feel
 feel how your body responds feel what emotions come up and you meet this and multiple things are
 happening when you're doing this one there's this sort of psychoskeletal thing that's happening
 physiologically yet the mucosa lining of your mouth is beginning to absorb the alkaloids
 in that small amount of mushroom and so you're literally aligning your biome to the biome of
 this mushroom and then when you swallow you're sending all of that information through your
 digestive system to your gut and you're sort of taking your temperature of how you are in
 relationship to this mushroom well well and of course that method also follows suit with other
 mushrooms and plants and the first sort of rule is know what you're putting in your mouth if you're
 not sure don't put it in your mouth yeah yeah interesting yeah and then from there and from
 that initial meeting and a lot of people who work with me will really actually feels really good
 and so they follow the way of the nibble up to certain doses and and they know what our safe doses
 to physically eat and what could actually cause some stomach upset well just to point out how
 different this is then what I understand of most people is that they very much try to mask the
 flavor of the mushroom through some kind of accompaniment either sweet or savory or something like that
 and treat it more like it's a like an ingredient in a larger recipe rather than just the mushroom
 itself well I agree with you and I love recipes and I love working with this mushroom and lots of
 different recipes and there's so many preparations of not just this mushroom but like there's so
 many recipes oh my gosh yeah well you mentioned micro calm micro drops m y c r o as one
 my co not micro micro micro drops yeah and y c r o yeah then they're yeah they're pretty legit
 as far as you're concerned yeah she she's she's a beautiful friend we get along very well we actually
 created an aminita's professional group on signal for other professionals working with
 aminita muscaria specifically or other aminita muscaria professionals yeah I say she has focused
 grounded and motivated it says three different elixirs yeah well she's got a number of elixirs that
 don't have their iovetic combinations and that then can be mixed with so siben or aminita muscaria
 or LSD or whatever the individual wants to mix it with and so this gets into like admixtures and
 what complements these different things but where are we speaking into is the initial
 meeting an intheogenic plant medicine or mushroom and the difference between just meeting that
 mushroom for the first time before you get into all the fun recipes yeah and then you know your
 baseline of who you are in meeting and being in relationship with this one spirit and how do your
 customers feel about this advice do you run into people who are pretty comfortable and used to the
 idea of relating to the personality and the spirit of what they're ingesting or is this kind of new
 territory for them i have a mixed collective of people so anyone who's more interested in the
 magical performance enhancing magic enhancing elements of it are happy to follow the way of the
 nibble but i have a lot of clients who are using it from medicinal nervous system ease healing
 fibromyalgia multiple sclerosis depression ADHD like a list of things that it can help to ease
 the symptoms of is actually quite extraordinarily long but just to kind of say that there are other
 people who have those conditions who use aminita muscaria medicinally we just take the crushed
 a mushroom put them in capsules and they just take the capsules and i say something slightly rude
 along the lines of to me putting the mushroom in a capsule is like wearing a condom during sex
 and why you're having sex with somebody you need to wear a condom can it can it be used for enhancing
 sexual pleasure apparently not in a capsule
 well okay how about therapy sessions can aminita be used in a therapy session
 so there's different dose levels i mean just like every other thing right so there's different
 dose levels and different experiences of those dose levels so in low dose levels which is like i
 said kind of up to eight grams roughly yeah you're looking at a light euphoria it's very social
 it's a little bit like being drunk that kind of like joyful friendly social feeling
 slightly less inhibited than your normal self the kimd m a yeah and so what i say if you that's
 where you want to stay you have to watch out for the more more because it feels so good you're like
 oh more oh more oh more but if you follow that more thing you're going to slide into a medium dose
 and that's definitely a very different experience what do you get what happens there
 but you know at a medium dose you start to get again like you're drunk you get a bit more wobbly
 and that can as your body is decarboxyllating the absintheic acid that can get a slippery slope
 really quick where you're discombobulated uncordinated the mind is sharp and there's no visual
 distortion but there's physical distortion and sometimes things that are quite small
 look very big sometimes things that are like they're like a doorway like a big doorway it's like oh
 i don't know if i can get through that i feel like you're like bouncing off the door post sounds
 kind of like allison wonderland it's very much like that and then just like with allison wonderland
 very mad hatter emotions can come up like the rabbit whereas suddenly he's sobbing at a poem
 or laughing hysterically or so the emotions want to come up and if one resists the emotions that
 want to come up that's where ways of nausea or physical discomfort start really coming in
 quite strong which increases the uncomfortable sensations of the size and the the big the small
 the time loops off the time loops yeah what are the time loops what it tell me about the time
 like it's literally like you'll just be in a loop like you'll say the same thing over and over
 but like the pauses in between or you'll like do the same action over and over and you won't
 necessarily remember that you've done it until suddenly you're like haven't i already like and
 then you sort of realize that you've been in this time loop and i i yeah it's so sassy well that's
 certainly because it can be positive or negative ice by the i know in post-traumatic stress syndrome
 that kind of repetition of the trauma keeps happening sometimes and that you as a therapist
 you're trying to stop that from reinforcing the negativity well so the way that i see it is that
 the time loops teach you to catch those repeating patterns that everybody has and so you get to
 practice oh i got it and then you can forget again and you oh i got it and what i find for myself
 and for the clients i've been working with for a few years now the ability to catch those looping
 patterns even when there's no eminita mascara around gets easier with the use of eminita especially